Llllllet’s get ready to ruuumbllllle! Tom Ascol dropped word that during the Pastor’s Conference of the next Southern Baptist Convention Drs. Al Mohler and Paige Patterson will debate Calvinism. This is surprising, exciting, and is the first thing to lure me to the pre-show …ever.
I think this is a step in the right direction for us as a cooperating body. Let’s debate/discuss theology, while remaining willing to work together. This pushes the important issues that matter (though sometimes only voiced by a few) to the front and allows for fair representation of the ideas, instead of the straw men that are usually burned by opponents.
Perhaps this debate can be the beginning of theological discussion beyond “inerrancy.” How about Chris Seay and Mohler debating the “emerging church?” What other conversations/debates would you like to see? Is anyone going to the Pastor’s Conference?
I am the Lead Pastor of Redeemer Fellowship; husband to Jen; Dad to Katherine, Elias, Madeline, and Kilian. If you're in town you can probably find me in the local coffee house or running through the neighborhoods.
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Joe, I’ll be seeing you there again this year. I’m sure you and Steve will be sitting down for this one. I know I will, if I can find a seat! BTW, did you get my message about the Evangelical Forum meeting next week in Alexandria with Mark Dever and Tom Nettles?
Did you send an email Travis? I recall hearing about it, but don’t remember where.
You probably read mention of it on Tom Ascol’s blog. I’m on the steering committe of the Evangelical Forum, and just wanted everyone in the D.C./Maryland/Northern Virginia area to know they are welcome to attend. Its going to be in a small venue (Good News Baptist Church), but we thought that would be quite appropriate, though we might need to be prepared to be a little crowded.
The meeting will be on Wednesday, November 8 beginning at 3pm. I don’t know why you did’t recieve my e-mail, but I you chose to do a blurb on your blog about the event, I would be grateful. I’m sure you can connect to the site with specific info through Tom Ascol’s blog.
Thanks,
Travis
Oops, the key word I missed was “if” you chose. Any mention would be appreciated.
Hey Man,
I plan to go, IF it isn’t on Father’s Day again.
I love the debate idea, it seems to be heading things in a communicative direction rather than a “ready-fire-aim” style.
if victory is measured by the number of loud Amens, then I think Patterson will win, hands down.
And if silent nods, then Mohler wins?
silent nods are difficult to measure. maybe there should be a shofar blowing contest.(patterson can use his handcrafted shofar constructed from the game of his last safari) the first one to pass out loses (although it could take a while as both are full of hot air—just kidding). just like casting lots, only better.
What a great idea. I don’t know who came up with it, but it’s excellent. There’s no better way I can think of for the SBC to come grapple with its theological diversity than to have SBC leaders respectfully debate differing positions. (I certainly hope and expect it will be respectful). It will also be instructive for the SBC at large to see respected leaders differ and still be united in faith.
This really has potential.
1. The pic is awesome Joe.
2. I completely agree that this is a great thing and important at this moment in SBC history. I’ll be there with bells on.
3. I also agree that there are some very important topics that need to be debated/discussed publicly in the future. I hope this is will start a trend.
4. The pic is really good Joe.
Rock ‘em Sock ‘em Robots baby!
According to Patterson there is going to be no debate. There will be a “forthright discussion” but not a debate. They are supposed to discuss how they are different and how they can and do work peacefully together.
I want the debate.
I want Anne Rice vs. Frank Peretti in a cage match!!
Oh great, this was exactly my worry. I told Joe on the phone today (or yesterday?) that I just couldn’t see Mohler really pressing the case in a public debate. Now it’s not going to be about theology, but unity. That’s great and all, but not what I wanted.
Tim – that stinks. We are a bunch of wusses.
Marc – If that fight happens, demon-boy is in big trouble.
Wow. Cage matches, huh? How about DA Carson and Clark Pinnock? Or John MacArthur and Brian McLaren? Or Hank Hanegraaff and Benny Hinn? Or James White and Dave Hunt? Or Bill Gates and Steve Jobs?
Oh wait, that last one didn’t really fit.
It would still be cool.
I want Pat Robertson vs. Hugo Chavez. My money’s on Chavez.
This just in. The discussion has been cancelled as well. Al and Paige will however, join hands and sing “We are the World”.
I’m looking forward to this to. One interesting thing is that I have a Baptist Study Bible that Dr. Patterson edited. The “calvinist” passages are dealt with fairly accurately in the study notes.
Hi Joe,
Re : the Evangelical Forum Meeting in Alexandria with Mark Dever and Tom Nettles.
Is there an audio available anywhere of this meeting?
George Craggs
I have been encouraging a summit of leaders not to debate theology, but missiology. The time has come for a missional resurgence to follow our theological resurgence. Lets just agree on the Bible as we understand it in our confession (BFM) and move forward in our discussion on how to do mission in the 21st century. We have come out of our theological huddle to find ourselves in a mission field that desperately needs Jesus. Lets’ ask Mohler and others to speak and write on the issue of contextalizing the faith and ask Rick Warren and others to speak and write on contending for the faith. Since they publically champion the other side of things, I think this appraoch has merit. The SBC Exec Committee, Lifeway, and IMB/NAMB should sponsor at one of our conference centers and then publish the book. When one speaks as plenary, there is also a spoken and published response. This could move use together with our “One Sacred Effort” or “resurgent” call, and we can put that on a t-shirt!! The time has come for us to stop arguing over models and methods which are not generational issues but missional issues. We would have our best missiologists and theologians at the table as well as practitioners ( I know they aren’t mutually exclusive, but you know what I mean!) Lots of topics would be of great interest as we think missionally about this stuff as a denomination. After all, its time to debate how we are going to get the job done if we discuss at all. Much of the rest will be a waste of time. The missional church must not rest until Jesus embeds, impacts, transforms every culture and community!!
I have been encouraging a summit of leaders not to debate theology, but missiology. The time has come for a missional resurgence to follow our theological resurgence. Lets just agree on the Bible as we understand it in our confession (BFM) and move forward in our discussion on how to do mission in the 21st century. We have come out of our theological huddle to find ourselves in a mission field that desperately needs Jesus. Lets’ ask Mohler and others to speak and write on the issue of contextalizing the faith and ask Rick Warren and others to speak and write on contending for the faith. Since they publically champion the other side of things, I think this appraoch has merit. The SBC Exec Committee, Lifeway, and IMB/NAMB should sponsor at one of our conference centers and then publish the book. When one speaks as plenary, there is also a spoken and published response. The time has come for us to stop arguing over models and methods which are not generational issues but missional issues, but this forum could help us get there. We would have our best missiologists and theologians at the table as well as practitioners ( I know they aren’t mutually exclusive, but you know what I mean!) Lots of topics would be of great interest as we think missionally about this stuff as a denomination. After all, its time to debate how we are going to get the job done if we discuss at all. Much of the rest will be a waste of time. The missional church must not rest until Jesus embeds, impacts, transforms every culture and community!!
Jim,
I agree with what you are saying – for the most part. I do not think discussing/debating theology proper, soteriology, etc. is a waste of time. I think it is necessary. But as you said, we desperately need to discuss missiology/ecclesiology. Using our confession as a point of general agreement and begin working through what it looks like to be the people of God in the 21st century. It is easy for us Calvinists to camp out on five important facts and never move into other truths that will also define who we are.
The Evangelical Forum audio of Tom Nettles and Mark Dever is available at http://www.jpbc.org/ef.html
I stand corrected! Perhaps, waste of time, was a little to harsh, since we do need to continue to communicate what we believe, however, our discussions in the huddle might not be the best use of our time when we have so much to do outside the huddle. Obviously, we must find a balance, but we are so behind in our contextualization of the gospel we have discussed over the past twenty five years! Its time to answer the why question by sharing our message in new missional forms and formats without arguing about it!
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