Comments on: The Real Problem http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/ theology. church. culture. life. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:58:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Reformed Motivation http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-8911 Reformed Motivation Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:52:53 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-8911 [...] I have also found the same deficiency among the non-Calvinists in no lesser measure. As I have said earlier, I do not think it is simply our theology that kills evangelism, but our hearts. In my case, and in [...] [...] I have also found the same deficiency among the non-Calvinists in no lesser measure. As I have said earlier, I do not think it is simply our theology that kills evangelism, but our hearts. In my case, and in [...]

]]> By: Justin http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1583 Justin Fri, 07 Apr 2006 00:16:43 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1583 Thought about it some more. You're right. The analogy was pretty bad. :) Thought about it some more. You’re right. The analogy was pretty bad. :)

]]> By: Justin http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1582 Justin Thu, 06 Apr 2006 18:11:14 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1582 Good points to ponder. Thanks for responding! Good points to ponder. Thanks for responding!

]]> By: Joe Thorn http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1581 Joe Thorn Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:23:52 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1581 The anaology does't work because you have a father negligently throwing his children in the water causing them to drown. It doesn't work because their inability to swim has nothing to do with their crime/sin. Our inability to "swim" is because we have cut off our own limbs in rebellion against God, thinking that in doing so we will become like God who doesn't actually have limbs - since he is a spirit. And we have rolled ourselves into the water. but even this illustrations is inadequate. God has given man a will, and he is a free agent - not coerced in making decisions from without. All reformed theology affirms this. But man only chooses what his nature allows, and our nature/heart in the fallen condition will not choose God until it has been renewed. The anaology does’t work because you have a father negligently throwing his children in the water causing them to drown. It doesn’t work because their inability to swim has nothing to do with their crime/sin. Our inability to “swim” is because we have cut off our own limbs in rebellion against God, thinking that in doing so we will become like God who doesn’t actually have limbs – since he is a spirit. And we have rolled ourselves into the water. but even this illustrations is inadequate.

God has given man a will, and he is a free agent – not coerced in making decisions from without. All reformed theology affirms this. But man only chooses what his nature allows, and our nature/heart in the fallen condition will not choose God until it has been renewed.

]]> By: Justin http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1580 Justin Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:12:21 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/2006/02/18/the-real-problem/#comment-1580 I think the analogy fits, even after your explanation. Maybe not the chucking into the pool part, but it was the children's fault that they got dirty - not mine - in the analogy. My grace alone is what saved the ones I chose. I understand, though, that analogies are not perfect. Perhaps it would be mere speculation on our part, but another question this brings up is why could we accept that God gave man true free will in the Garden of Eden to choose good or evil, but does not today give man a similar free will to choose Him or reject Him? I think the analogy fits, even after your explanation. Maybe not the chucking into the pool part, but it was the children’s fault that they got dirty – not mine – in the analogy. My grace alone is what saved the ones I chose. I understand, though, that analogies are not perfect.

Perhaps it would be mere speculation on our part, but another question this brings up is why could we accept that God gave man true free will in the Garden of Eden to choose good or evil, but does not today give man a similar free will to choose Him or reject Him?

]]>