Mark Coppenger, pastor of the Evanston Baptist Church plant in Chicago, lectured for 45 minutes at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary about the very popular Blue Like Jazz by Don Miller. Like many others I have read the book, and was interested to see what Mark would say about it; even if he is pretty late to this party. I was hopeful that he would really interact with the book; perhaps Miller’s 13 Paradigm Shifts.
Mark admits the book was engaging, but he also says that anyone could write a book like it. It’s just “stream of consciousness” writing. He makes this point a couple of times during his lecture; writing a book like this is easy, anyone could do it, you just let it all flow out. The funny thing is Mark himself slips into a stream of consciousness rant about the 60’s for over five minutes. It is pretty obvious that not “anyone” can make a stream of conscious expression interesting.
Mark did make a good point early on. He said that in the book Don was being “real” (little r) which is easier than being “Real” (big R) meaning pointing beyond human experience to The Truth. I think that can be a helpful thing to discuss, and of course I agree with the premise. But I think the reason so many were intrigued with Miller’s realness (little r) is because the church has been very good at pumping out the Real while not being very real.
Mark also accuses Miller of trying to present God as something “cool.” But that is not Miller. It may be the hype surrounding the book, but Miller has clearly spoken against the idea that Christianity is something cool. In an interview with The Door Miller said,
I think the Gospel is the message that Jesus wants us to present, and we don’t need to be God’s marketing machine. We need to present the Gospel accurately because that’s what God has asked us to do. I think if somebody passes from this life thinking that Jesus was cool, that’s not very helpful. They need to know that Jesus was the Son of God who died to forgive them of their sins, and enter into a relationship with God. I think the church has bought into this idea that if we make Jesus look cool we win. But what these fellows are trying to do is make themselves look cool, not Jesus. They’re looking at a culture that rejects the idea of Jesus, they say “But I want to be a Christian and I also want to be cool so I’ll try to make Jesus cool.” That’s about you, not Jesus. We certainly need to repent of that.
The whole of the review seemed to be less of a real interaction with the book, or Miller’s central ideas, and rather a reaction against it. His review consisted of 11 points explaining that Don Miller’s spirituality is “blue like” eleven things. (I will only give you the bullets. You can listen to it all here.)
1. It is blue like “blue states.”
Miller’s not a Republican, and points to what he sees as problems in the Republican party.
2. It is blue like a “blue light special.”
Here he accuses Miller of simply trying to market the Gospel.
3. It is blue like “blue blood.”
He accuses Miller of being an elitist.
4. It is blue like “blue jello.”
It’s like nailing jello to… oh goodness you get it.
5. It is blue like “Blue Oyster Cult.”
Here he spends a lot of time, over five minutes, describing his experience of the 60s, and never makes a convincing connection to BLJ.
6. It is blue like “black and blue.”
He says Miller is showing all his wounds to his audience.
7. It is blue like “working blue.”
Miller uses crude language.
8. Wait for it, here it comes… It is blue like “Pabst Blue Ribbon.”
Yep, a reference to beer at the end of the book is a major problem.
9. It is blue like “blue ice.”
He says Miller, like an airline dumping frozen, blue waste over the landscape, dumps excrement on the landscape of Christian history and theology.
10. It is blue like a “blue screen.”
It’s all smoke and mirrors.
I have to say I am disappointed with the review. Not because it is critical of BLJ, but because it seemed to superfically critique the book. It often boiled down to judging Miller’s motives, rather than engaging his ideas.
Look, I am less interested in defending Miller, and more interested in a real interaction with another’s words. Like with everyone I read Miller says things that I don’t like. But he also says some things that are true and very timely. Maybe there isn’t just a faddish love for the book; maybe there is also a faddish reaction against it.
If you have not read the book or heard the critque be sure to give each a try. Just be discerning with both.
There is Nothing Blue Under the Sun:
A Grandpa’s Take on Donald Miller’s Blue Like Jazz
- Mark Coppenger
Blue Like Jazz
- Don Miller
28 Comments
I don’t want to say too much since I have not listened to the audio but it doesn’t suprise me at all. It’s funny, anyone can write like that, except for the fact that not anyone can write like that.
Your post of the critique points to so much of my disappointment (and my friend’s disappointment) with the old guard southern baptist. I appreciate Coppenger’s mind but the reactionary techniques really points to so much of the issues we have in evangelicalism: we are always late to the game.
It makes it very hard to take people seriously with things like this. At what point do we just stop listening to old liners all together? Do they not realize that not many are taking them seriously?
Joe,
I’ve had it with your even handed, well balanced, thoughtful approach to reading. Don’t you know you’re supposed to use the index to look up hot button topics you disagree with and then trash the book based on those things? Grow up man and enter the real world!
Let’s remember that the review is by one who was let go from the presidency of Midwestern Seminary because he tended to be a little too (little r) real with his staff. His profanity and abusiveness was deemed inappropriate by the trustees.
Yeah, I have heard that, but am not sure how much of that was legit. In my limited interaction with Mark, and the other times I have heard him speak, he has been characterized by a self-effacing “realness” that I liked.
The thing is, he expressed concern that some would tune him out when he spoke critically of BLJ. But I think he would have had a better hearing if he dealt with the substance of the Miller’s thoughts. Having one of your 10 points focus on a passing beer reference in the back of the book will certainly not help you get a hearing with the younger generation of Christians who are taking the Bible seriously. :beer:
Agreed. A substantive critique is always preferred to the criticism of tangential elements or, for that matter, to an ad hominem attack. Admittedly (time for me to be “little r” real and, hopefully, in line with “big R” reality), I suppose I was guilty of that in my comment about Coppenger. If the allegations were true, I just found his criticism to be ironic. I would say that Coppenger’s review is evidence of the paradigm shift occurring in evangelicalism at large and the SBC in particular.
Joe, it was widely known that something happened at MBTS. It was both reported in Christianity Today and you will also find Rima talk about it as a case study in his book Leading from the Inside Out.
Coppenger was on his way out as I entered MBTS, so I missed all the hubub which I am appreciative of. Friends said he was a very brilliant lecturer, especially in philosophy and philosophical theology.
Yes, I know about the drama. I am just not certain how much of his departure was about an anger problem, or if it was political/theological. Everyone I knew there at the time loved Mark.
I’ve dubbed Dr. Coppenger’s lecture as “Red Like Blood” for the viciousness in which he ripped Miller the person all while barely touching Miller’s ideas. I went there expecting to disagree with the majority of what was said, but I did not expect to be angered. You nailed it: either he majored on very questionable minors (beer, harsh speech), or he chased rabbits (emotional appeals to his experience in the 60s and the Resurgence) or he just straight out made accusations that could not be substantiated by the book and really amounted to slander (such as calling him an elitist and heretict).
Thank you for posting this. I’m glad to know there’s another non-David Brandt person who walked out of their wondering what the heck just happened.
- Paul Butterworth
Paul,
Southern is my alma mater, but I have been back up in IL pastoring/planting a church since 2000. I wasn’t there for the lecture, but I was able DL it. If I was present I would have looked for an opportunity to talk to Mark about his review. He’s pretty approachable.
I like Coppenger and have admired him for some time. I read his writing in the Illinois Baptist paper, some of which is very good. I’ve wanted to meet him since coming to pastor in Chicagoland, but have yet to have the opportunity.
That said, I thought his defense of conservative and institutional Christianity (this wasn’t a book review) was very poor. Joe you are right in saying this is judging motives rather than engaging ideas. Coppenger was given 45 minutes to rip deeper and deeper into Don Miller, and I can’t remember a single thing he said that actually engaged an idea directly from Miller’s words. Oh wait, Coppenger did basically link Miller to lesbianism and abortion because Miller thinks Ani DiFranco is hot. Good work Mark!
My favorite line is “Beer is a killer.” (But I bet guns don’t kill people.) He said Miller mentioned beer in the acknowledgments section, then he says Miller “parades his beer familiarity” in the book. Sheesh.
And I lost count of how many times Coppenger mentioned the “soul patch.” Brilliant. Maybe all the students laughing at Coppenger think he is “cool” for ripping on Miller’s facial hair.
Again Joe is right here. This isn’t so much about defending Miller. It’s about actually engaging ideas, which Coppenger so easily avoided.
Good post Joe. I appreciate Coppenger’s wit, but this review is Adventures in missing the point in a Big Way. I give BLJ to every serious Christian kid I have here at OBI, starting with my son. Miller is flawed….and hot on the trail of Jesus. That’s Good News.
Who knows guys, maybe Mark will drop in and we can all chat about the book.
Thanks, Joe. I think these discussions are as beneficial as the books themselves sometimes.
I hope you will pardon this intrusion.
To be upfront and honest, I’ve not read BLJ, nor have I heard Coppenger’s comments.
I’ve read as many negative reviews as I have positive. But the divisions seems to be that the old line cast aspersions on the book while, how should I say this, more emerging, missional-mindeds like it. Derek Webb loves it, Shane Walker of 9Marks hates it.
So, we’ve established that some like it and some don’t. But while the negative commentators have given reasons that the book is unhelpful, most of the positive reviews have been in response to a negative one to say how important this book is and to criticize the criticism.
Can someone tell me, what is there about this book that is worth defending? Why is it so important and why are those who pan it wrong?
I hope someone will take this as a serious question because I’d seriously like to know. If there’s a reason to read it, then I will. But I generally won’t read something just because someone says, “Just read it.”
Can you give me the link to this guys webpage, and a place were I might be able to download the mp3? Thanks
Joe,
The link to the MP3 is at the bottom of the post.
Van,
As I explained earlier. My point is not to defend all the things Miller says in his book, but to challenge the superficial assessment of his book, any book, by some of the critics in my own camp (Southern Baptist and Reformed).
I think much of this comes down to how one reads a book. When I read a book, watch a movie, listen to a poem/song, etc. I do so critically. This does not mean that I am looking to tear it apart. It means I do my best to understand the author, his point, and see how it reflects or contradicts Biblical truth. Many others seem to be on a heresy hunt, and when they are only finding small game
In the case of Don Miller’s BLJ, one has to keep in mind he is writing a narrative of his personal journey. It should not be read as if he has attempted to put together a systematic theology. We pride ourselves at knowing how to interpret Scripture, noting “genre” and “authorial intent” and “context,” but many seem to not do the same when reading current authors - especially if they have already been labeled. I honestly believe many critics of BLJ have been influenced against it before reading it, and often parrot what they have heard someone else say.
At any rate - why should you read it?
1. Because it is fun.
2. Because we can learn from another’s story. It is his journey. You know, kinda like Augustine’s Confessions. No - it’s not on that level, but I promise these critics have just as many problems with ol’ Auggie as they do Big Don. It’s just more “cool” to poke at the new kid.
3. Because he will make you think, rather than spoon feed you conclusions you have already drawn.
4. Because he makes some great points that relate to how we think about Jesus, sin, self and others. This is interesting to me. Most critics admit he makes some great points, but then pay no attention to them. They would rather point out the problems with the book. More high-fives from friends no doubt.
5. Because your culture (Christian and non) is reading it.
6. Because reading/engaging people you disagree with is helpful for your own theological development if you attempt to see what is right and what is wrong with their assertions.
If someone gave me those six reasons for reading a book, I would jump at it.
Van, the substance of the book is rambling observations about various topics. But to me, in a lot of ways it had to do with an exposition of the greatest commandments–how to love God and love people in the 21st century. Miller’s intro talks about how he came to love jazz–by seeing another man play a sax in a way that you could see that he loved the sound, and so Miller came to love the sound. So with Miller’s journey of coming to love God, we the readers can come to see and love God as we see Miller do it–sometimes you just have to see someone love something before you can love the thing itself. I certainly don’t think that just telling your story is enough for evangelism, but its definitely one way to share the gospel, and its especially good for americans that have sex scandals, pat robertson, republicans, the crusades or maybe just legalistic parents dancing in front of them when they hear the word christianity.
Joe, thanks for your reasons for reading the book. Especially 3 and 5. I’ve been intrigued by the whole “engaging the culture” line of evangelism, but I’ve yet to see any really effective examples of it. At the same time, I’m having to break out of my own self-constructed theological comfort zone in order to find one. I’m finding that not everyone is in my comfort zone.
billmelone, thank you for a concise and unbiased assessment of the book. My understanding of the book prior to finding this post is that it is not a theology book and that has been part of the reason that it’s been panned. Some disliked it because they thought it should be, others have liked it because it was not.
I can especially appreciate the analogy of being drawn by someone else’s love and enjoyment of something. And that is a way that I would hope that my church and I can witness to and serve our community.
Perhaps I will read and “engage” this book.
BLJ was for me, a new Christian, very reassuring, in the way that fellowship with other believers is very reassuring. I consider this book to be memoir and fellowship rolled into one package.
Miller did not point me in any specific directions with profound instruction, nor did he shake my belief system. What he did in BLJ was show me that at times a Christian struggles, slips, and gets frustrated when trying to relate to Christ, and he showed me that the answers to our questions and resolutions of our problems do indeed come thru Christ, many times in ways we do not expect.
The most comforting thing I hear from people who have been Christians longer than me is “I’ve been there, and this is what happened, this is how I overcame this obstacle or discovered this truth.” BLJ is a collection of episodes that captures the spirit of fellowship, the sharing of our experiences as we learn to walk with Christ. I will read it again, I’m sure.
I listened to the mp3 while I was online but I’d like to download it and give it to a friend to listen who does not have internet access at this time. Any way I can pull that off? I did a google of this guy and the only thing it seems to say is he was fired from a Seminary.
Mark is a good guy planting a church in Evanston/Chicago, IL and teaches at Southern Seminary. To DL the MP3 right click the link and choose the “save as” option. If, like me, you use the Firefox browser rigt click and choose “save link as.”
I am utterly amazed. Gossip can take on all forms these days…blogging is just another vehicle to perpetuate now I guess.
None of us is infalliable…as though digging up someone’s past is an acceptable means to carry on an intellectual discussion. I have had Dr. Coppenger for two classes now, and to say the least the man is brilliant. He has put his past behind him…why don’t you?! I was in a class where he talked about the book briefly…his analysis was objective - not a personal attack.
Coppenger’s point is that we can and need to engage the culture, but should not compromise our values in the process. It may seem rather “cool” these days to bash the church, but truthfully it is rather boorish. It’s one thing to be real, it’s another thing for someone to “celebrate” failures. This book does just that.
Hey Bar’,
If you read my words, I have said nothing but good things about Coppenger, save his weak review of Miller’s book. I have even defended him when his past was brought up. I agree that is not the point at all. ‘Just not sure whom you are addressing when you say, “He has put his past behind him…why don’t you?!”
IM ABOUT 1/2 WAY THROUGH BLUE LIKE JAZZ. CHRIS W. I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF. ALTHOUGH I HAVE TRIED TO FOLLOW JESUS MUCH LONGER THAN YOU YOUR WORDS ARE PERFECT.
BARRY WRIGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THE BOOK AGAIN. YOU SAY BLJ IS DON CELEBRATING HIS FAILURES. I COULD NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU MORE. IT SEEMS TO ME HE STARTS AS ONE OPPOSSED TO JESUS AND ENDS UP TRYING TO PARTNER WITH JESUS TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER. HARDLY A MISTAKE. BARRY IM SURE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF MISTAKES IN YOUR LIFE THAT TAUGHT YOU VERY HARD AND VALUABLE LESSONS. IF NOT YOUR NOT FROM THIS PLANET. ANYWAY I THINK BLJ IS BRILLAINT. JUST AN ORDINARY MAN WITH PROBLEMS EVERY HUMAN HAS. ITS ABOUT TIME WE SEE A REAL PERSON. IM SICK AND TIRED OF THE MASKS CHURCH PEOPLE WEAR. BY THE WAY IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ ANOTHER EXCELLENT BOOK THATS SHAKING THE FOUNDATIONS TRY ROB BELL’S VELVET ELVIS.. HE IS THE FOUNDING PASTOR OF MARS HILL BIBLE CHURCH IN GRAND RAPIDS ,MI. GOOD STUFF ROB. THANKS DON F OR BEING REAL.
D Black,
Thanks for commenting. Just be aware that all CAPS is generally considered inappropriate in comments. God bless.
I just read D BLACK’s comments as if Will Ferrell were in character as that guy who can’t change his voice level. Or maybe I’m just entertained at stupid things like that. I HAVE VOICE IMMODULATION! SEE? I JUST WHISPERED THAT BUT YOU DIDN’T KNOW. But good points. I don’t think Don is trying to celebrate his mistakes either.
I recently read BLJ. It brought out and resolved some things that I had bee feeling since childhood. Now I do believe that in having a love relationship with Christ, there are things that i don’t do (avoiding the appearance of evil) not because a Christian can’t, but because they would not be healthy in that relationship.
I truelly love his summation of a love relationship with Christ, even if I do believe that some things don’t help in a love relationship with Christ. (All things are legal but not all are expedient)
Thank you for allowing me to post even though i am uneducated.
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[...] Joe Thorn reported on Mark Coppenger’s recent analysis of Blue Like Jazz at Southern Seminary. You can read his post, listen to the lecture, and decide for yourself what you think of Coppenger’s take on Miller. [...]