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	<title>Comments on: Should I Stay or Go?</title>
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	<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/</link>
	<description>steve mccoy is my Bud Abbott</description>
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		<title>By: Debra</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2815</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 03:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2815</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree with you that how we raise our children is a missional matter.  I guess what I was trying to say is that I disagree with the argument, made by some, that we should place our children in public schools in order for them to be missionaries to their unsaved classmates.  (Some children, especially teens, could indeed take on that role, but they would be the exceptions not the rule.) This is a noble and good intention but experience has shown that this is not only, generally, ineffective but very risky. And I disagree that homeschooling always equals abandoning either our schools or the world.

And also I agree with you that there is no one, right way to educate our children.  It is probably for the best that resolutions, such as the one encouraging the withdrawal from government schools, not pass. But I think it is very important that people be encouraged to make thoughtful, prayerful, informed choices with regards to how they educate and raise their children and consider the issues and options.  Resolutions force discussion and debate and so serve a purpose even if they aren&#039;t passed.  To get back to your point, though--that is why resolutions, whether they pass or not don&#039;t bother me and are not likely to be a make or break issue for me in a decision as to whether or not to remain in the SBC fold.  

I just discovered your blog--there is much here I need to read! I&#039;ve pretty much decided to stay put in this denomination in which I was raised (but left for many years) but I am really encouraged by the questioning and calls for change that I am reading about on blogs like yours.  Many thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree with you that how we raise our children is a missional matter.  I guess what I was trying to say is that I disagree with the argument, made by some, that we should place our children in public schools in order for them to be missionaries to their unsaved classmates.  (Some children, especially teens, could indeed take on that role, but they would be the exceptions not the rule.) This is a noble and good intention but experience has shown that this is not only, generally, ineffective but very risky. And I disagree that homeschooling always equals abandoning either our schools or the world.</p>
<p>And also I agree with you that there is no one, right way to educate our children.  It is probably for the best that resolutions, such as the one encouraging the withdrawal from government schools, not pass. But I think it is very important that people be encouraged to make thoughtful, prayerful, informed choices with regards to how they educate and raise their children and consider the issues and options.  Resolutions force discussion and debate and so serve a purpose even if they aren&#8217;t passed.  To get back to your point, though&#8211;that is why resolutions, whether they pass or not don&#8217;t bother me and are not likely to be a make or break issue for me in a decision as to whether or not to remain in the SBC fold.  </p>
<p>I just discovered your blog&#8211;there is much here I need to read! I&#8217;ve pretty much decided to stay put in this denomination in which I was raised (but left for many years) but I am really encouraged by the questioning and calls for change that I am reading about on blogs like yours.  Many thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Thorn</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2814</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 01:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2814</guid>
		<description>Debra, 

Good words and I agree. Though I would say how we raise our children &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; a missional matter. It just isn&#039;t done in one way (public education, or home schooling). We have a couple familes at our church who home school, and we plan on doing the same the Lord allows. I think a family can follow Christ in either scenario. Again, thanks for contributing to the discussion. Good stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debra, </p>
<p>Good words and I agree. Though I would say how we raise our children <em>is</em> a missional matter. It just isn&#8217;t done in one way (public education, or home schooling). We have a couple familes at our church who home school, and we plan on doing the same the Lord allows. I think a family can follow Christ in either scenario. Again, thanks for contributing to the discussion. Good stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Debra</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2813</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 22:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2813</guid>
		<description>Correction: In my post I said &#039;general consensus of opinion&#039; but since a resolution is passed by voting, it would be more accurate to say &#039;majority opinion&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: In my post I said &#8216;general consensus of opinion&#8217; but since a resolution is passed by voting, it would be more accurate to say &#8216;majority opinion&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Debra</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2812</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 22:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2812</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to pull the post off-topic by coming back to the homeschooling resolution thing--but I just had a few observations and I think I can tie it back in to the topic at hand. First of all, for the sake of full disclosure, I am a homeschooling parent.  I agree with Joe, completely, that this resolution doesn&#039;t stand a snowball&#039;s chance in a very hot place of passing.  But I see nothing wrong with raising the issue and addressing the question of how we are to raise our children in such a way that best ensures they grow up with a Christ-centered mindset.  Reasonable people can disagree on this topic but that doesn&#039;t mean it isn&#039;t crucial for it to be thoroughly examined and discussed.  How we raise children is, ultimately, a personal issue but it is not a missions issue.  Children can be homeschooled without withdrawing them entirely from the world.  And Christians can have a missional presence in and influence on kids in the public school system without sending their children there during the most formidable and impressionable years of their lives. 

Whether or not to I stay in an SBC church will not be determined by whether or not I agree with a resolution presented regarding personal decisions (drinking, education, finances, etc..) If I understand that at the root of discussing and passing resolutions on &#039;disputable matters&#039; is a genuine desire to honor God and help the Body of Christ---and not just an attempt to cater to some faction or appease the culture--then I can remain regardless of whether or not I agree with the resolution.  Resolutions like this are not binding on the individual or on SBC churches are but simply represent a general consensus of opinion among the leaders as to what they believe to be the best course of action to achieve the goals of Christ (in this case, raising Godly children).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to pull the post off-topic by coming back to the homeschooling resolution thing&#8211;but I just had a few observations and I think I can tie it back in to the topic at hand. First of all, for the sake of full disclosure, I am a homeschooling parent.  I agree with Joe, completely, that this resolution doesn&#8217;t stand a snowball&#8217;s chance in a very hot place of passing.  But I see nothing wrong with raising the issue and addressing the question of how we are to raise our children in such a way that best ensures they grow up with a Christ-centered mindset.  Reasonable people can disagree on this topic but that doesn&#8217;t mean it isn&#8217;t crucial for it to be thoroughly examined and discussed.  How we raise children is, ultimately, a personal issue but it is not a missions issue.  Children can be homeschooled without withdrawing them entirely from the world.  And Christians can have a missional presence in and influence on kids in the public school system without sending their children there during the most formidable and impressionable years of their lives. </p>
<p>Whether or not to I stay in an SBC church will not be determined by whether or not I agree with a resolution presented regarding personal decisions (drinking, education, finances, etc..) If I understand that at the root of discussing and passing resolutions on &#8216;disputable matters&#8217; is a genuine desire to honor God and help the Body of Christ&#8212;and not just an attempt to cater to some faction or appease the culture&#8211;then I can remain regardless of whether or not I agree with the resolution.  Resolutions like this are not binding on the individual or on SBC churches are but simply represent a general consensus of opinion among the leaders as to what they believe to be the best course of action to achieve the goals of Christ (in this case, raising Godly children).</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Thorn</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2798</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 21:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/04/30/should-i-stay-or-go/#comment-2798</guid>
		<description>Rick,

It is clear that you have stumbled in here without reading much of my stuff. Read my most recent post for a pic of what I want from the convention. You will see that I am hopeful for greater cooperation with and support for all who fit under the umbrella of our confession.

I can get past your tone, but your words themselves are a bit much for me when you say, &quot;Reform your heart and your church first before you try to reform a whole denomination. If it becomes too much for you, go out and start your own better and perfect non-denominational denomination.&quot;

Reforming heart and church is what I am arguing for as the primary thing to work on. Try reading &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.joethorn.net/2006/05/03/unconventional-wisdom/&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; to see more of where I am coming from. I am certainly not expecting everyone to share all of my theological convictions, rather, I am simply asking that we use our confession appropriately and not exclude Baptists who embrace it.

Let me assure you, the vast majority of our leaders will admit that there s a need for &quot;reformation&quot; in the SBC. What kind of reformation is the question to be asking.

Keep up the work in Peru man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick,</p>
<p>It is clear that you have stumbled in here without reading much of my stuff. Read my most recent post for a pic of what I want from the convention. You will see that I am hopeful for greater cooperation with and support for all who fit under the umbrella of our confession.</p>
<p>I can get past your tone, but your words themselves are a bit much for me when you say, &#8220;Reform your heart and your church first before you try to reform a whole denomination. If it becomes too much for you, go out and start your own better and perfect non-denominational denomination.&#8221;</p>
<p>Reforming heart and church is what I am arguing for as the primary thing to work on. Try reading <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.joethorn.net/2006/05/03/unconventional-wisdom/">this</a> to see more of where I am coming from. I am certainly not expecting everyone to share all of my theological convictions, rather, I am simply asking that we use our confession appropriately and not exclude Baptists who embrace it.</p>
<p>Let me assure you, the vast majority of our leaders will admit that there s a need for &#8220;reformation&#8221; in the SBC. What kind of reformation is the question to be asking.</p>
<p>Keep up the work in Peru man.</p>
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