Unconventional Wisdom

by Joe Thorn on May 3, 2006

Wow, we finally have agreement in our Convention. It’s time for change. Heck, even Bobby Welch has spent his time as Prez trying to affect change. But sensing that something is wrong and knowing what the real problem is are two different things. Knowing what must be done is even more difficult. This is where I see myself differing with others, even many of the younger leaders, in the SBC. It’s not that I have the answers, but I do have ideas. So here is my perspective.

I think before we can address what the most critical problems in our convention are we must first determine what our Convention is supposed to be. My hope for the SBC is that we would be a cooperative effort of churches with a confessional identity and a missional character. A confessional identity is essential to articulate our common faith and establish the parameters of cooperation. A missional character puts Kingdom work and values first, displays a mission of redemption over a war with culture, and results in a variety of activity from service to preaching to political engagement. (For more on this missional character/confessional identity see my article in Founders Journal #63, for more on “missional” see my short series here).

The question for me is what are the problems that are hindering this ideal? Here are my top three.

#1. Bad theology.
It isn’t a big secret that the majority of our churches are theologically weak. I am not even talking about the finer points of soteriology. Theological anemia has left us with a Gospel gutted of its holistic redemptive message, a salvation that has been watered down to be only the remission of sin and guilt, and the mission of the church as merely the conversion of sinners. Bad theology/weak theology is the seminal problem from which all others flow. Specifically relevant is theology of the Gospel, mission and the Kingdom of God.

#2 Narrowing parameters of cooperation.
I am not sure why there is a tendency to restrict the parameters of cooperation within our Convention. It is ironic that some are fearful of actually using a confession and yet rely on a spirit of fundamentalism that continues to restrict who can do what. We need to use the confession we have, allowing it to work as it is designed.

#3. Misunderstanding the purpose of the convention.
The purpose of the convention is, in my estimation, to encourage/empower the local church to carry on the work of the Kingdom. The Convention serves the churches. It is not the other way around. I recently asked Steve McCoy if he thought the tail is wagging the dog, and he said “not as much as the dog is waiting around for its tail to do something.” I believe we have a tendency to invest too much into convention positions, thinking, “If we could just get the right guy (our guy) in that office things would really change.” I don’t buy that.

So here’s the thing; I believe change will come. I believe change is coming when I talk with other pastors, church planters, employees of Convention entities, seminary students, et al. I recognize that I could be wrong, and that change in the SBC is more complicated than most seem to admit, but I believe God can bring about real reformation in our Convention (and is doing so) through a number of things.

First, conversation via books, blogs and brotherhood is changing things. For everyone who mocked the emerging church’s “conversation,” I hope you took note of that very emphasis at the TFTG Conference. Conversation matters. Through the articulation and testing of thoughts in the context of community we continue to learn and grow. It is no small thing for Christians (especially Pastors) to make some form of this a priority. Biblical/theological conversation changes people.

Second, the seminary influence is changing things. It is not that everything is great at our schools, but good is coming out of them. A lot could be said here, but I want to limit it to one thing. While I can only speak of SBTS, I do not think it stands completely alone. Seminaries like Southern are producing thoughtful expositors of Scripture. As these young men leave the school with the tools to study and communicate the message of Scripture/the point of the passages we have postured our younger leaders for the task of semper reformanda. In the conversation I have with many of you, I see a willingness to put our conventional efforts to the test, evaluating them by Scripture. Of course, some students come out of seminary having wasted everyone’s time, others come out merely parroting what they were taught and did not bother to learn how to think. But over all, I see strong men coming out of places like Southern.

Third, reform in local churches is changing the convention. Formal education or not, there are countless men and women working for the reform of our local churches. I would also include here our church planting efforts. When our churches are theologically grounded and missionally driven change will come to the Convention. No amount of change in the political machinery of the Convention will produce that change in our local churches.

None of this leaves out the political process. We should plug in and be involved in our Convention. Voting is good. Electing a President who sees the real problems in our Convention as well as the best possible answer to those problems is important. Here’s an idea, how about a guy who doesn’t burn James Boyce in effigy from his pulpit (ahem, sorry about that)? I am just not convinced that pushing for political change on the front end, as our primary response to the problems is the best approach. In fact, I think any attempt to change the Convention primarily through a political tug of war will work against the hope I have for this cooperation. I think such an emphasis, which appears to be on the minds of a few people I know, is a bad idea.

So what do I think we should be doing to work for a better Convention?

Be involved.
Participate in your conventions (state, local and national). Serve when asked, speak up when things are out of whack, and try to encourage better work. Model it. I believe change can come through you (I know that sounds a bit Anthony Robbins, but I believe it).

Commit yourself to your local church.
Since I believe change at the local church level will produce change on the Convention level we need men who are willing to plant themselves in churches. Have a sense of calling man. These ridiculous 2 year terms that are common among Southern Baptist pastors is a clear indicator that things are wrong (Professionalism? Upward mobility? Whatever.). Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but in general I believe in longevity in pastoral ministry.

Network.
This relates to conversation, but meet with others in the Convention who are modeling the ideal. Meet with others who share your concerns. And yes, network with those outside of the SBC.

Study and Practice.
Give yourself to the study and practice of theology, particularly as it relates to kingdom, Gospel and mission.

I guess what I’m saying is reformation generally takes time. Like I said, I am not sure I have the answers, and this is really just a ramble of my ideas. A ramble that is admittedly incomplete. But here you have it – if you made it this far through my post.

About Joe Thorn

I am the Lead Pastor of Redeemer Fellowship in Saint Charles, IL, and author of Note to Self: The Discipline of Preaching to Yourself. Jen is my wife, and Katherine, Elias, Madeline and Kilian are my kids.

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  • http://justtodd.snowhill.org Todd

    Joe – solid post. i would add the need for conversation not only outside the SBC but outside my particular theological bent … never been more stretched than considering life and faith when involved in something of a “comparative” experience. we often are better able to articulate our convictions, as well as discover where our theology has been culturally hijacked – either from within (say, denominationally) or without (too close a marriage with dominant political culture).

    keep up the healthy thinking and instrucitve critique …

  • http://www.leadingchangeinc.com David Phillips

    Joe,

    These are good thoughts.

    Based on your last paragraph, I’m assuming this proposal to be theoretical in nature. If I am wrong in my assumptions, please correct me. It’s fine if it is, I’ve thrown my own theories around quite a bit!

    I have a proposal for you and Steve and I, and if others want to jump in, then great! And please take this proposal for what it is, no smart remarks, no judgments, etc. Let’s do a research study to see if we can find one association or state convention within the SBC OR their equivalents outside the SBC where change to a missional, and we’ll need to put parameters on this, theologically healthy association actually occurred without top-down initiatives and through a grassroots movement that was not hyper-political in nature. Then let’s identify the processes and systems employed and build a framework for reformation within the SBC. We may not be able to find one. But we may identify where movements have truly had an impact and take from that.

    Let’s move from the theoretical to actually finding areas where this happened and apply them to our current context. This models for others that we seriously want to see change in the convention and we are willing to make the investment to find out how. Let’s come to the situation as we come to scripture (though I’m not equating the convention with all that is holy :-D). Just as we let scripture determine our theology instead of always looking at the text with a theological bent, let’s release our views of how to bring reformation and study how others actually did it.

    That way, we’re not talking about “if’s” but actual results. We may not like the results we find, granted, but it brings credibility to our efforts.

    I’m more than willing to commit the time.

    If, however, these ideas have worked in other places, then I’m ready to get on board.

    I don’t have the answers either, but I am willing to work to uncover them, and I think they can be uncovered.

  • http://www.fbca-riversedge.blogspot.com Mike

    I like that your suggestions were not given only for pastors and elders. Even in my mini-mega-church, if I am able to build community in my Bible study group, supply solid gospel teaching, and encourage our group to be ‘Sent Out’, I can help change our church. I know, because our group was ‘changed’ by the example of another Bible Study group.

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    David,

    Thanks for your thoughts man. Good idea. I personally have no interest in studying other associations to see what might have happened. I think it is a valuable research project, and believe it would reflect what I am saying. But that is not where I would put my energies. Maybe someone getting a professional degree will jump on it. :)

    When I look at the few associations I know of, the associations are strengthened/reformed via churches, not from the DOM’s office. I think those in my association would affirm this as well. At the same time there is a sort of reciprocity between the churches and the association. But the heart of it, the weight of it, the success of it rests primarilly in the local churches.

    So, of course my thought are theoretical in one sense, but beyond that I am working hard at living out the principles and am seeing things happen on a micro level.

    If you, or anyone, gets that study going I would love to hear what you find.

  • http://justtodd.snowhill.org Todd

    David – i do know of an institution that is reshaping its theological education along missional lines. they did it via relationships with people who were practicing missional ecclesiology in local churches. inviting these folks in to help walk through the theological and practical considerations was aided by a couple of faculty members who shared the same missional bent. cooperatively they have brought the entire faculty and its support system (read, donors) to consider this move instrumental in training missional leaders. as joe pointed in his reply, it does seem the heart of these kinds of changes germinate from the local church, even when we are talking about larger “systems and structures.” scott mcknight at http://www.jesuscreed.com recently blogged about his vist to this Seminary.

  • http://practicalithe.blogspot.com/ the fundamentalist

    To me, the issues in the SBC seem to stem more from disagreements over practice and not over doctrine. The SBC right now is figuring out what is is going to do with itself in the 21st century as things move away from the modernist mindset that the SBC blossomed in to a post-modern mindset, which flies in the face of everything that is SBC. I wish I had a crystal ball to gaze into and see the future, but I don’t. Furtunately, a buch of guys with a lot more wisdom and experience that I do. McNeal, Barna, McCoy, Duren, Berleson, and last but not least, you Joe have all helped me see the changing face of church culture. Hopefully we will be able to adapt as a convention. Thanks for the tips!

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    I think our troubles are very doctrinal. Yes, we often debate differences is practice, but the underpinnings are always theological. The reason our methodology is so messed up (at least some of it) is because of how we think of Gospel, kingdom and culture. This whole one million baptisms in one year has, at bottom, a biblical/theological flaw. Our predominantly unregenerate denomination is that way because of bad ecclesiology. That one of our elders (a gifted linguist and former missionary to Jordon) was turned down for service with the IMB over his moderate use of alcohol is the fruit of doctrine, not just practice. So, in the end it is both, but primarilly doctrinal.

  • http://rodneysramblings.blogspot.com Rodney McCarty

    Joe – I like the direction you are pointing. Good analysis.

    Bad Theology – exactly. It continues to amaze me how many times people who have been believers longer than I have been alive come to the text of Scripture and have never challenged what “they always thought it meant.” I’ve been accused of making people’s heads hurt because I bring up possibilities of meanings for the text that they never thought about. Some are beginning to think about Scripture for the first time in many years, if not for the first time ever. (ie – the use of alcohol, women in ministry, “free will”, etc.) It is exciting to see people digging into the Word and letting the Word express itself, rather than tradition.

    Narrowing parameters of cooperation – lots has been written on this, and each one of us can cooperate with those in our own communities who are seeking to glorify God. Change will happen – slowly.

    Purpose of the convention – great word picture. I’ll probably use that one. For the most part, I could care less who is going to be the next political leader of the SBC Boat on any level.

    As far as the way out of this mess, I think you are right on target. We gotta be involved on multiple levels – some political, most not. It amazes me how many people do not want to be involved in denominational life – yes politics are involved, but so are they when 2 people are together….. We can’t just sit on the sidelines and gripe about how other people are playing the game.

    It used to be that the “Arizona Highway” for pastors had an 18 month stopoff in different towns. Don’t know what the state average is now, but tenure appears to be longer now. I’ve been here for a little over 2 years, and we haven’t even gotten a good start yet.

    Networking – its gonna happen, no matter what the powers that be try to enforce. That’s how things happen today. Five years ago, probably not, but today…..

    Study and practice – more important than ever before because of #1 – Bad theology and the current mess we are in.

  • http://www.leadingchangeinc.com David Phillips

    Todd,

    Yeah, I saw McKnight’s post about that seminary. They are about 1 hour from me. I would like to talk with them from an institutional level. But the issue is more of an associational or state convention level, which is where we need to look, because you are talking about getting churches who cooperate to change how they function and how they relate to multiple entities.

  • http://practicalithe.blogspot.com the fundamentalist

    I’d imagine if you sat down with some of the leaders of the SBC that you’d agree with them on fine, points of doctrine. It may be that We manifest that doctrine differently though. A campaign to baptize 1,000,000 or redefining evangelism toEncompass a lifestyle both stem from is Soteriology that people need Salvation In through Jesus. I think these are two have a common root but manifest themselves in two different generations of thinking and cultures.

  • http://www.stevekmccoy.com/ Steve McCoy

    Joe, great post. I agree at every point. As a matter of fact, it’s so good…

    *Ahem* Let it be known this third day of May in the year of our Lord numbered Two Thousand and Six that The WoG Thornifesto (or “TWoGT”) is hereby signed by me,

    Stephen K. McCoy

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    LOL! Steve, that made my night. Very funny.

    Fundie,

    Of course I would agree with most Southern Baptists that we all are lost apart from Jesus. But that sort of reductionism has led to much of our troubles. There are some great people in the machinery of the SBC. Men I know. Friends. People I respect. But I am convinced that the most critical problems stem from theology (as explained above).

  • http://practicalithe.blogspot.com the fundamentalist

    Gosh…what was a I smoking when I type that last comment!?! Anyways, I respect what you have to say, and I beleive it is how we are defining doctrine, so in essence we are saying the same thing. But anyways, I appreciate your post.

    Steve, Thanks for the humor.

  • http://www.byfarthersteps.com Tim Etherington

    It is ironic that some are fearful of actually using a confession and yet rely on a spirit of fundamentalism

    Many prefer an unwritten confession. Then it can be applied as I’d like.

    However, a good clear confession isn’t a panecea (not that I think you are even hinting that it is.) Look at the Presbyterians and the bloodbath over the Federal Vision! Eeeks.

    Biblical/theological conversation changes people.

    Amen!

    Seminaries like Southern are producing thoughtful expositors of Scripture.

    You know at TEDS they only recently added hermeneutics as a required course. You’d go from this intense focus on original languages to preaching with no interveining steps.

    The only class offered in hemenutics was Grant Osborne essentially teaching his book The Hermeneutical Spiral. I never took it. What kind of hermeneutics class do they teach at SBTS?

    I see strong men coming out of places like Southern.

    Me too. Speaking as an outsider.

    Very good thoughts Joe. Thank you.

  • http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog Josh

    Joe. Love your first 3 points. About the 3 problems. And love your solutions. They are dead on.

    However, at the risk of sounding like a pessimist, I’m less hopeful about the state of the convention than you and your friends. There are too many people in power now for change to happen the way it needs to happen. And until those guys retire or move on, their grip will stay tight. No matter how much unrest that happens at the bottom.

    My experience goes like this (I can think of multiple occasions with multiple people of this happening). Pastor #1 shares the same frustrations and disappointments that most of us share. Pastor #1 then happens to be in a room with an SBC leader or prominent pastor, either at a conference or church. Pastor #1 then procedes to kiss . . . rear . . . up and down. Pastor #1 says he doesn’t like what’s going on in private. In public, he swallows the pill because he wants to be where prominent SBC leader is. And doesn’t want to lose his mortgage.

    That scenario has played it itself out countless times. Way to many for me to be hopeful.

    I absolutely agree with you and get a sense since I’ve started reading your blogs and Steve’s and some others, that there is some real hope coming from guys like you. And rightly so. Guys who are not wanting to kiss butt when they’re around SBC leader. Who politefully and respectfully and humbly share their thoughts. I respect that. But I’m just not so sure that there are enough of you guys out there. Not in comparison to those who sit at the top of every committee, seminary, trustee board, deacon board, ministry, and church.

    I previously worked at a very large church, with a very prominent SBC leader. And by many standards, we were the cutting edge church. There would be tons of SBC churches that would die to have and do what we did. But despite the ascetics (sp?) it was still a traditional church dressed up to look missional.

    And I know just how difficult it would be for most pastors and leaders to get their head around that. Let alone, get beyond that. To where we really need to be.

    I just think many of us are underestimating just how big of a ship it is. I know God is big and all that jazz. And I’m not minimizing the role that God is playing in stirring up all of these new things. I just think the SBC may be one of those groups that may be to stubborn to be stirred.

  • Debra

    I just think the SBC may be one of those groups that may be to stubborn to be stirred.

    I don’t know whether Josh is right or not, but I would like to share my perspective. I come from a long line of Southern Baptists and grew up in this denomination. I attended Southern Baptist churches through college—but then one day, I had enough. I couldn’t stomach walking into another church with a ‘Together We Build’ sign or sitting through another Sunday School class where I seemed to be the only one answering any questions or listening to another typical Southern Baptist sermon. I won’t even attempt to describe what it was about the teaching and preaching that I found so empty and hollow. I’m not sure I could even describe it back then, except to say that it was like sitting through the same lecture over and over again. So I left….for over 20 years. Three years ago, I walked into a tiny, country Southern Baptist church. It’s hard to describe the experience but I immediately felt at home and very quickly knew that this was where God wanted my family and I to be. I could write a book about my experiences and observations over these past 3 years. But my point is that after 20 years away–I can tell you things have drastically changed. Much of the change was in me, of course (Like Mark Twain talking about how when he was 14 his father was really stupid but when he turned 21 he was amazed at how much his father had learned in 7 years. ;-) ) But through my involvement with this church, and Southern Baptist groups and, recently, reading blogs like this, Reformissionary and several others….I am absolutely astounded at the changes I see among Southern Baptists. (I just heard of a Student Minister at a local SBC church near me leading the teens in the study of John Piper’s book, Desiring God!) Not all the changes I see are for the better–but overall I am greatly encouraged. I never thought that things could turn around like they have. I don’t know how this has happened or where it is going–but to a person coming back after a long absence it looks like a zeitgeist that has it’s origins with the Holy Spirit working at the grassroots level, in the hearts and minds of many Southern Baptist Believers. So I think Joe is right and that it is from the bottom, up that we will see most of the greatest and lasting changes occurring.

    But I’m a newbie. I am just beginning to understand these issues and get involved. I have a lot of catching up to do. But I just wanted to share some impressions from someone that is both familiar with and new to the Southern Baptist world. For those of you who have been in the SBC over the past 20 years, I know it must seem like the changes have been small and slow in coming–so I just wanted to give you a little encouragment from someone who has returned after a long absence, and from my perspecitive: Wow!

    I’ll be doing my part, here at the local level–praying, sharing my thoughts and teaching children and young people when I have the opportunity. My husband and I have done much wrestling over whether or not our family would be better off in another type of church setting or denomination. But just recently, I have started feeling very strongly that God has taken me back to my roots and plans for us to stay in the SBC fold, for good. IMO, these are exciting times….

  • Debra

    …or sitting through another Sunday School class where I seemed to be the only one answering any questions

    When I reread that line after I posted it , I thought it sounded pretty snooty and like bragging–what I should have said was “sitting through classes where hardly anyone else was asking or answering questions.” The Sunday School experience reminded me of that classroom scene from “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” where the teacher is lecturing in a monotone and periodically pauses to ask a question and says “Anyone? Anyone?” and getting no response continues with his monologue. Though slight exaggeration, that was pretty much my Sunday School experience in just about every Baptist church I attended during my teen and young adult years in the late 70′s, early 80′s.

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