Moore Thoughts on Pop Culture

by Joe Thorn on May 16, 2006

Russ Moore writes on the Christian’s interaction with pop-culture in the newest issue of Southern Seminary’s magazine, The Tie. In the article, Pop Christianity and Pop Culture on Mars Hill, Moore argues that the church needs to do more thinking in the area of cultural engagement. I agree with him, and think Dr. Mohler made an excellent point on this topic at the TFGT Conference. I still hope to pick up on his idea later this week. Moore attempts to explain common, evangelical cultural engagement by reducing it to two different kinds of Christians; Off Brand Evangelicals and South Park Evangelicals.

The Off Brand Evangelicals are cultural imitators and exploiters. This group copies the culture in order to edify the church and make money off it. If you like Boy bands, but don’t want to hear lyrics about sex with minors, then try the newest Christian boy band. NStep – or whatever. All the cheese, half the talent, and nothing sinful in the content. You get the idea. He spends very little time here, and wants to focus on a different target.

The South Park Evangelicals are those who “up turn their noses at Christian pop culture and bask in whatever Hollywood and Manhattan churn out, looking for ‘signs of redemption’ therein. Young evangelicals are able to read the weblogs of virtually unemployable but awfully hip evangelicals who can discuss the ‘redemptive value’ of ‘Million Dollar Baby.’” Yeah, Moore comes out with both guns blazing – and hitting little.

Of course there are some who fall into this category, but those I know who actually work at engaging Hollywood, or pop culture in general, cannot stomach most of what Hollywood churns out. The fact is most of the movies released in a given month are little more than pre-fab eye candy.

Moore writes,

Often pop culture is further compared to the missiological contextualization Christians attempt when working with other cultures internationally. It is, therefore, of little value to criticize pop culture — such is “fundamentalist” and passé. “Preaching against culture is like preaching against someone’s house,” one Southern Baptist church planting guru said [Ed Stetzer]. “It’s just where they live.” Contrasting the messages of pop culture with the messages of a Christian world-and-life view is often derided by these evangelicals as the rhetoric of “culture scolds” rather than that of evangelists.

Cultural engagers (at least those I know) are looking for story, ideas, truth, error, lies, hopes, experiences and values in art – even film. They engage culture while being in the world, but not of it, drawing participants’ attention to the truth either reflected in or in contrast with the art. The idea that they are against contrasting the biblical “world-and-life view” with pop-culture is false. On this issue of scolding culture, versus speaking to it redemptively (which includes the proclamation of law and Gospel) I think Moore and others may be speaking past one another. That is for another post.

Moore has some good things to say in the article. For example, see page five in the magazine, the top three paragraphs. Good stuff, yet I often have a different application of such principles.

For example, in the article Moore seems to say that Million Dollar Baby does not have redemptive value, but I would say the interaction with the film can be redemptive. I have to think he would agree, even though I think he misunderstands the film. And this is worth mentioning. Eastwood seems to gravitate to stories that lack redemption. Things do not always work out in the end. People do not always do the right thing, or even learn from their mistakes. And in Eastwood’s movies, I am not convinced his point is to push an agenda of moral nihilism. The absence of redemption in his films is itself the place to bring the Gospel to bear; to show what the Gospel says to that smaller story.

Moore sees a film like MDB as a story that “loves death.” Such an assessment misses the point of the story altogether. The story centers on a religious man who loves his friend and is conflicted about a moral choice. If he listens to his priest, and keeps his friend alive, he believes he is sinning against her. If he does not listen to his priest, he believes he sins against God. In the end, he makes a choice without the knowledge of the Gospel – death, and it not only ends Maggie’s life, but his life as well. He is ruined by his action and does not seem to know if he made the right choice. The movie is not extolling death, nor ambivalence. It tells a tragic story pivoting on complicated choices (at least for most Americans who find themselves there). For more of my thoughts on the film read here – though I fear I am one of those “virtually unemployable” hip bloggers Moore refers to. Whatayagonnado?

Let’s try this from another angle. Moore enjoyed the recent Johnny Cash tribute film, Walk the Line. I could argue that the film – the story people saw on screen – told us of a man who lusted after another woman, was unfaithful to his spouse, and destroyed a family. He found himself miserable, not because of his sin, but because he couldn’t have what he wanted. Oh – until he got what he wanted. Once he got the girl, all was well. Should I say the message of the film was a love of adultery? Is it a gospel of self-fulfillment? Is it an advertisement for the Institute for the Advancement of Marital Infidelity? No, that would be the wrong way to engage a film that tells a story without real redemption.

But this is not about Eastwood’s fictional characters or Johnny Cash, it is about the church engaging the culture God has placed us in. Moore is right – we all have to be more thoughtful as we engage culture. I know I do, and I believe he does as well. But his caricatures of others who are trying to do what he asks are generally, not totally, unfair and unhelpful.

As a pastor, I do not want the people at our church mindlessly taking in pop-culture. I do not believe our engagement with art and entertainment should be passive. I expect God’s people to be careful, thoughtful, and redemptive in this area. We must do more than superficially save a story with weak spiritual analogies, but we must also do better than pointing out what’s wrong in a story.

  • http://jason.voxtropolis.com jason allen

    Nice post Joe, thanks for your thoughts.

    The issue of cultural engagement is an important one for any church wishing to live out its missional calling to the world. I find it difficult at times to do this in our current SBC setting which seems to fluctuate between political take over and isolationist propaganda. Both points of view seem to desire a utopian state (where judeo-christian values rule the day) very different from our current pluralistic setting.

    A question from the article. Does Moore provide a third alternative to the Off Brand Evangelicals and South Park Evangelicals? It seems he would not want either version so what is his positive statement about the church’s cultural engagement?

  • Pingback: The Boars Head Tavern » Blog Archive »

  • http://www.internetmonk.com iMonk

    Joe…I really like this post, but I wonder if some of the brass tacks questions are not being addressed.

    For instance, it is fairly common among reformed Baptists to say you should not watch a movie with any profanity or sexual content. I recall a scathing review of “To End All Wars” because of the language.

    If we are going to engage culture, we are also going to have to engage OUR culture, i.e. the fundamentalist, culture of separation that has ghettoized evangelicals from the movies, music and television.

    I like what I hear from many of these men. They are, of course, the same guys who would condemn Theology in a Pub :-)

    peace, MS

  • Buckley

    ” He found himself miserable, not because of his sin, but because he couldn’t have what he wanted.”

    I wonder if we saw the same Walk The Line? You’re talking about the movie starring Joaquin Phoenix, right?

  • http://mattcrash.blogspot.com Matt Stokes

    I have a load of respect for Dr. Moore, but I agree that he is missing some points regarding MDB and other cultural engagement.

    Well said, pastor.

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    Jason,

    Be sure and read the article. It is not long. He says some good things in it, but the outworking of those principles is still something to discuss.

    Michael, the issue of art/entertainment can get complicated. I agree that a lot more needs to be said, and I have attempted to contribute to the dialogue on this blog, as well as in my own ministry.

    Buckly,

    Yes, same movie. This is my point. One can superficially look at a film and miss what is being said/portrayed. I believe this was done with MDB.

    Matt,

    There is no doubt that God is using Moore via SBTS. My concern is often how he interacts with those he disagrees with (or sometimes misunderstands), and how he connects with cultural artifacts.

  • Buckley

    “Yes, same movie. This is my point. One can superficially look at a film and miss what is being said/portrayed. I believe this was done with MDB.”

    Oh, ok. I think I see where you think you were going. Of course, one might by the same logic interpret Godfather II as a story about the importance of family loyalty.

    If WTL wasn’t a portrayal of “real redemption” (your words) of Cash through the Carters, then we didn’t see the same movie. As for Million Dollar Baby, I can’t comment. I wouldn’t see a movie that glorifies euthanasia. ; )

  • Buckley

    Wait…what are we arguing about again? The only horse I have in this race is Cash.

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    Buckley, I think you were being playful, but MDB does not “glorify” (praise or honor) assisted suicide. Not from my take. But I have beat that horse to death. Oh, and I would see a movie that glorifies assisted suicide. Or, at least that would not put it on my banned list.

    Yes, I overstated things a bit with WTL. Redemption is present in that one family saves Cash from self-destructing. But what of his sin, guilt, etc.? What of his former family? The wife of his youth? I am not saying this makes WTL a bad film. I thought it was good. My point in drawing an anology is that the redemption angle is smaller, and the story as it stands on its own does not deal with his crimes against his family. The redmemption is superficial. Either way though, of course, it is a great opportunity to talk about sin, family, guilt, longing, satisfaction, coveting, AND redemption.

    But let’s not turn the thread into a discussion of WTL specifically. I’d rather discuss the nature of engaging pop-culture.

  • Buckley

    I was being playful.

    Joe, I agree about placing common sense boundries on what Christians call ‘redemptive’. The Matrix was a lot of things, but the Gospel it was not. Even The Passion wasn’t the pure Gospel. (no alter call!) So is there a threshold you are suggesting? You’ll know it when you see it?

    For example, with Babette’s Feast, I think it is reasonable to expect the Atheist to understand that the feast wasn’t really salvific, just as I expect the Christian to understand that the candles under Papa’s picture didn’t mean the daughters worshipped thier father in the idolatrous sense.

    But seriously, there really is a standard by which we can evaluate art. We agree.

  • Buckley

    ” the story as it stands on its own does not deal with his crimes against his family”

    Have to disagree again. Sorry. The hateful chiding at the table by Cash’s father about Johnny’s failings? If you didn’t shrink in your seat along with Cash then…Johnny admitting that he deserved to be left in the water under the tractor? What exactly did you want to see happen? A stage outfit with a sequined scarlet A?

    This particular question is more about art and taste than redemption, I think.

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    Last comment on the Cash story: I was only commenting that concerning his sins – serious sin and guilt – there was no redemption or restitution. But all of this is really beside the point. So please… let’s move along.

    I did not want to see anything happen – this is the point. I will let the writer/director tell me the story they want to and then engage that story with the Gospel.

  • http://www.stevekmccoy.com/ Steve McCoy

    But Joe, clearly MDB is about deeply loving and longing for death. I encourage you to talk about that more. ;)

  • Buckley

    “But all of this is really beside the point. ”

    Fair enough.

    “I did not want to see anything happen – this is the point”.

    Ok, but I thought this was the point:

    “We must do more than superficially save a story with weak spiritual analogies, but we must also do better than pointing out what’s wrong in a story.”

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    The first quote concerns what we might want a director to say. I think our job is to respond to what he says, not ask him to say something different.

    The second quote is about responding to what he has in fact said, not what we think he said. This means being fair to his vision, and showing the comparison/contrast of the Gospel, history of redemption or the character of God.

    I think you and I would essentially see WTL similarly, and it would be discussion about the film over coffee, or whatever, that would help us understand the film better. I sometimes get the feeling when reading the culture critics that they are merely backing each other up. It may not be the case, but it sometimes feels that way.

  • http://jason.voxtropolis.com jason allen

    Way back in the comments iMonk mentioned the need to engage even the evangelical culture that seems to want to live in isolation from the world (somewhat my spin of what was said).

    I think there is something to that. But I find myself vacillating at times between wanting to engage those evangelicals who constantly throw sticks at those of us trying to faithfully follow Jesus in the 21c and doing things very different from them and from just throwing up my arms and saying forget it b/c it seems to be so pointless. Does that make sense?

    Part of me wants to just keep on, keepin’ on and ignore those who like to knit pick and grumble.

    What’s funny about it all is that we are consumed by questions that those far from God don’t even care about.

    Anyone else feel this tension?

  • http://www.joethorn.net Joe Thorn

    Yeah, I feel the tension described in your first two paragraphs. I almost didn’t bother with this post, because I would rather just focus on what is right, not how I think someone else got it partially wrong.

    But the church will always have discussion in-house that the world is not having – that part does not bother me.

  • shu

    amazing… thank you for posting this blog. I agree totally with your understanding that interaction with the culture can be redemptive… I find sometimes that Moore generalizes things and writes almost as fact.

    Anyways, keep doing what you’re doing ;)
    Shalom

Previous post:

Next post: