Founders Con: D2

Posted by Joe Thorn - 13/07/06

A day late. Yesterday Fred Malone stood in for Tom Ascol and handled the question, “Is the Gospel Lost?” The answer was both, “yes” and “no.” Of course in one sense the Gospel can never be totally lost. Christ will build his church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. But in another sense the Gospel is lost “in cetrain times and certain places” whenever it is added to, or when something is taken from it. He pointed out the Gospel was lost to many in Galatia because of one word/issue: circumcision.

He brought our attention back to the Gospel itself, explaining the Gospel primarily in terms of a historical reality; the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ on behalf of sinful men (1 Cor. 15). It was a sober, solid sermon. He concluded by stating the Gospel is lost (in certain places) here in America and pointed to three ways the Gospel has happened. 1) The doctrine of the “carnal Christian” which presents a “Gospel without submission,” and has led to a widespread belief in “decisional regeneration.” 2) The prosperity and “seeker” Gospel which often leaves out the hard words, pushing the benefits without the cost of the Gospel. 3) Conservative, bible-believing preachers. Yep, he said it. He said well-intentioned men who may even believe the Gospel often rob men of the Gospel when they preach the Scripture without preaching it Christocentrically.

Good, provocative stuff. After this I decided to take spend the day with the wife and kids. We had lunch, and spent the afternoon at something called The Celebration Station - like Chucky Cheese on steroids. Bumper boats, go-carts, and a ton of games inside. The kids had a blast and it was good to spend the time together. Today I will be at the meetings all day and will give a recap when I get back tonight.

12 Comments

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  1. Joe, what’s the attendance? I sure wanted to be there but family responsibilities kept me from coming.

    Comment by Jim Shaver — July 13, 2006 #

  2. Joe,

    Can you believe I get to sit under Fred’s teaching once a month? He’s from here in my neck of the woods, and at our little Founder’s gathering of about 10, he teaches.

    Comment by Brad Williams — July 13, 2006 #

  3. Cool. Enjoy the day and we will be praying for your return.

    Comment by Steve McCoy — July 13, 2006 #

  4. All of the speakers have been excellent. If any of you get a chance, listen to Joe’s devotional message on Psalm 51. It was absolutely awesome, and I am already rethinking how we do our services! (More akin to the Puritan model). Thanks for coming, Joe.

    Comment by Charles Wigington — July 13, 2006 #

  5. Very nice. I would be hesitant to agree with his third point for the only reason that I don’t understand it fully, I would need more elaboration. But I agree whole-heartedly that the first two ways are very true and very destructive to the gospel message.

    Comment by sofyst — July 13, 2006 #

  6. Jim, attendance is down this year (many potential reasons), but next year should be back to normal.

    Brad, Fred said something at the conference - a parenthetical statement really - that is so good I want to give some time to it here later.

    Charles, it was very nice meeting you today. Thanks for the encouragement, and I know great things are already happening at your church.

    Sofyst, He was simply saying that preaching needs to be more than moralisms and interesting facts about the Bible and biblical culture. All things should point us back to the cross.

    Comment by Joe Thorn — July 13, 2006 #

  7. Thanks for the thoughts, sounds like a great conference. I’m with sofyst, I agree with what is being said with two hesitations. First, I too need to hear more about number three. Second, I wonder… Is the gospel good news just for “sinful men”, or does it in fact have broader implications for all creation?

    Just something I’ve been wrestling with.

    Comment by Mike DeVries — July 13, 2006 #

  8. Mike, I have been wrestling with that as well. Must say it comes from reading McLaren. I have always thought that the Christian focus on ’salvation’ being only ’salvation from hell’, and about obsessing over asking every last person on earth ‘do you know where you’ll go when you die’, to be missing the point. I think salvation is so much more than that. Jesus is my Savior, as in He is now saving me (hopefully) from sin within my present life. Why narrow the LORD’s work?

    But then I begin to question whether this scope should be broadened even more. Perhaps Jesus is the Savior of myself from Hell and from my daily sin, but could I say as well that He is the Savior of an unelect (I am Calvinist) from, let us say, disease and poverty?

    While upon the earth He did heal the blind and make the lame to walk. Unless we assume automatically that these people were either redeemed or would be, we could say that Jesus’ purpose for coming to the earth was in fact to be the Savior of all mankind. Whether He saves them all from the same things is another question (I’m not universalist in that regard).

    Comment by sofyst — July 13, 2006 #

  9. Totally see where you aree coming from. What I’ve been wrestling with comes more from N. T. Wright, namely that the salvation of humankind is a part of an even larger “rescue operation” [as Wright would put it], which is the restoration of all things, including creation itself. This kind of thinking [namely that God is redeeming and restoring ALL of creation] can be seen in Colossians 1.19-20…

    For God was please to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood shed on the cross.

    It appears that God is also interested in righting all creation, not merely humanity alone. I think you an also see this in the message of Jesus. When he began to preach, his message was “The Kingdom of God [or heaven] is at hand [or breaking into this world].” The kingdom was not a location one would go to when they die, but the realm in which God’s justice and rule was as he intended it to be. This included not merely a reconciled humanity, but also a new creation. This is what the good news of the gospel was all about.

    Again, just wrestling out loud…

    Comment by Mike DeVries — July 13, 2006 #

  10. I touched on this a while back. see here for some thoughts.

    Comment by Joe Thorn — July 14, 2006 #

  11. Brothers, as I read the posts regarding the scope of God’s redemption, the refrain from one of my favorite Christmas carols echoed in my head…far as the curse is found…far as the curse is found!

    New here but sure enjoy reading your stimulating and nourishing conversations.

    Comment by Jimbo — July 14, 2006 #

  12. Joe… read your linked post… very nice. Completely agree.

    Comment by Mike DeVries — July 14, 2006 #

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