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	<title>Comments on: The American Christmas</title>
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	<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/</link>
	<description>theology. church. culture. life.</description>
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		<title>By: Perry Mccall</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2854</link>
		<dc:creator>Perry Mccall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great article. I too have had to fall back on the background of the Christmas holiday in order to be able to enjoy it again. The biggest help for me was when it dawned on me that the &quot;Christmas Holiday&quot; is not the mission of the Church. It serves a glorious evangelistic and teaching purpose but God has not called the Church to promote and save Christmas. This has enabled me to not only enjoy the season but also to embrace it more.  It has also helped me to ignore the &quot;war&quot; on Christmas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. I too have had to fall back on the background of the Christmas holiday in order to be able to enjoy it again. The biggest help for me was when it dawned on me that the &#8220;Christmas Holiday&#8221; is not the mission of the Church. It serves a glorious evangelistic and teaching purpose but God has not called the Church to promote and save Christmas. This has enabled me to not only enjoy the season but also to embrace it more.  It has also helped me to ignore the &#8220;war&#8221; on Christmas.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2853</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good words Joe. And necessary for guys like me who tend to get kinda surly about all the commercialism.

You wrote about the concern &quot;that all of this amounts to us pretending to like each other.&quot;

I think that the shift of focus for a time can actually change our simple feelings toward one another and this then changes the way we act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good words Joe. And necessary for guys like me who tend to get kinda surly about all the commercialism.</p>
<p>You wrote about the concern &#8220;that all of this amounts to us pretending to like each other.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that the shift of focus for a time can actually change our simple feelings toward one another and this then changes the way we act.</p>
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		<title>By: Go To Bethlehem and See....</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2852</link>
		<dc:creator>Go To Bethlehem and See....</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2852</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Joe Thorn: The American Christmas&lt;/strong&gt;

Joe Thorn:
I hear from quite a few people that all of this amounts to us pretending to like each other for a few days of the year. That the smiles, acts of kindness, and all the holiday cheer is a superficial facade that is dishonest. But I disagree. I...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Joe Thorn: The American Christmas</strong></p>
<p>Joe Thorn:<br />
I hear from quite a few people that all of this amounts to us pretending to like each other for a few days of the year. That the smiles, acts of kindness, and all the holiday cheer is a superficial facade that is dishonest. But I disagree. I&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jasonk</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2851</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I love history.  Thanks Joe, for a great lesson from our history.

Two songs came to mind as I read your post.  One is by John McCutcheon, called &quot;Christmas in the Trenches.&quot;  It is based on the true story of WWI veterans who, during the war, and without the permission of their superiors, called a cease fire on Christmas eve.  Soldiers from both sides came out onto the battlefield, played games, exchanged gifts and food, and told stories of Christmas back home.  It was a little bit of peace in a bad time.  There was an attempt later on to have these men tried for treason, and giving aid and comfort to the enemy.  Great song.

The other is by Lyle Lovett, and is called &quot;Christmas Morning.&quot;  He talks about the lady at the checkout stand, and the people at Christmas time, all exchanging pleasantries, well wishes, etc.  &quot;What did they really mean by that?  I&#039;m not the fool they think I am.&quot;  He is cyncial that they don&#039;t really mean what they say, they&#039;re just saying it.  Then he turns to his wife, who is leaving him, and says that she didn&#039;t really mean at their wedding, when she promised to love him no matter what.  His point is that for many folks, words are just words, without any true meaning.  Wedding vows, and Christmas greetings, are just words.  Pretty deep stuff.
Great post.  Thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love history.  Thanks Joe, for a great lesson from our history.</p>
<p>Two songs came to mind as I read your post.  One is by John McCutcheon, called &#8220;Christmas in the Trenches.&#8221;  It is based on the true story of WWI veterans who, during the war, and without the permission of their superiors, called a cease fire on Christmas eve.  Soldiers from both sides came out onto the battlefield, played games, exchanged gifts and food, and told stories of Christmas back home.  It was a little bit of peace in a bad time.  There was an attempt later on to have these men tried for treason, and giving aid and comfort to the enemy.  Great song.</p>
<p>The other is by Lyle Lovett, and is called &#8220;Christmas Morning.&#8221;  He talks about the lady at the checkout stand, and the people at Christmas time, all exchanging pleasantries, well wishes, etc.  &#8220;What did they really mean by that?  I&#8217;m not the fool they think I am.&#8221;  He is cyncial that they don&#8217;t really mean what they say, they&#8217;re just saying it.  Then he turns to his wife, who is leaving him, and says that she didn&#8217;t really mean at their wedding, when she promised to love him no matter what.  His point is that for many folks, words are just words, without any true meaning.  Wedding vows, and Christmas greetings, are just words.  Pretty deep stuff.<br />
Great post.  Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Kidwell</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2850</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Kidwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2850</guid>
		<description>Joe wrote:&lt;em&gt;But I often sense that the church picks the wrong fight. Christians will fight over a man made holiday without ever helping people connect to Jesus.&lt;/em&gt;

That&#039;s the meat of it.  Let&#039;s go picket WalMart because they won&#039;t let their employees say Merry Christmas when &#039;Merry Christmas&#039; really carries no weight with it now--if it ever did at all.  The punchline is that the world can&#039;t even stand the fake idea of Christmas anymore so we&#039;re fighting for a plastic image anyway.

I love this time of year too in spite of all that and yes that last comment did make a great deal of sense.

Josh
&quot;...the word of God is not bound.&quot;
--2 Timothy 2:9</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe wrote:<em>But I often sense that the church picks the wrong fight. Christians will fight over a man made holiday without ever helping people connect to Jesus.</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the meat of it.  Let&#8217;s go picket WalMart because they won&#8217;t let their employees say Merry Christmas when &#8216;Merry Christmas&#8217; really carries no weight with it now&#8211;if it ever did at all.  The punchline is that the world can&#8217;t even stand the fake idea of Christmas anymore so we&#8217;re fighting for a plastic image anyway.</p>
<p>I love this time of year too in spite of all that and yes that last comment did make a great deal of sense.</p>
<p>Josh<br />
&#8220;&#8230;the word of God is not bound.&#8221;<br />
&#8211;2 Timothy 2:9</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Thorn</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2849</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks guys.

Josh, I don&#039;t think it is important to do any one thing overtly different from the world if that thing is good. Looking different for the sake of looking different is of no value to me (I know this is not what you are suggesting). Yet we do xmas differently in numerous ways. Ultimately we believe it is all about Jesus Christ (he is the perfection behind the stories we tell and read) so for us it is both about worship and work; celebrating him and demonstrating him. So we start with him - when others might start with the American Christmas picture and hopefully find their way to him.

In the end the &quot;holiday&quot; itself carries no real weight with me biblically. Jesus was not born in December. I view the holiday as an aspect of my culture more than an essential part of my faith. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I think the incarnation of God is HUGE to our faith and have been preaching on that for the past few weeks.

But I often sense that the church picks the wrong fight. Christians will fight over a man made holiday without ever helping people connect to Jesus.

For the record I enjoy celebrating xmas in both the church and the world. In both realms I am pointing to the Gospel, but one is a context of worship, and the other a context of proclamation/evangelism. I hope that makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys.</p>
<p>Josh, I don&#8217;t think it is important to do any one thing overtly different from the world if that thing is good. Looking different for the sake of looking different is of no value to me (I know this is not what you are suggesting). Yet we do xmas differently in numerous ways. Ultimately we believe it is all about Jesus Christ (he is the perfection behind the stories we tell and read) so for us it is both about worship and work; celebrating him and demonstrating him. So we start with him &#8211; when others might start with the American Christmas picture and hopefully find their way to him.</p>
<p>In the end the &#8220;holiday&#8221; itself carries no real weight with me biblically. Jesus was not born in December. I view the holiday as an aspect of my culture more than an essential part of my faith. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I think the incarnation of God is HUGE to our faith and have been preaching on that for the past few weeks.</p>
<p>But I often sense that the church picks the wrong fight. Christians will fight over a man made holiday without ever helping people connect to Jesus.</p>
<p>For the record I enjoy celebrating xmas in both the church and the world. In both realms I am pointing to the Gospel, but one is a context of worship, and the other a context of proclamation/evangelism. I hope that makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: bjnotbk</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2848</link>
		<dc:creator>bjnotbk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2848</guid>
		<description>Nice post Joe!  One of the best I have read on the subject this year especially since it was filled with logical, well thought out statements instead of emotionally charged statements.

Good question Josh.  We should be salt and light for sure.  Christmas can be one of the most hectic stressful times of the year.  Maybe a better question to ask would be....do they see the peace in my life?  Do they see Jesus?  Maybe we can all worship Him this year and be different by not allowing ourselves to be caught up in the frenzy.  I know, easier said than done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post Joe!  One of the best I have read on the subject this year especially since it was filled with logical, well thought out statements instead of emotionally charged statements.</p>
<p>Good question Josh.  We should be salt and light for sure.  Christmas can be one of the most hectic stressful times of the year.  Maybe a better question to ask would be&#8230;.do they see the peace in my life?  Do they see Jesus?  Maybe we can all worship Him this year and be different by not allowing ourselves to be caught up in the frenzy.  I know, easier said than done.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Eaton</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2847</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Eaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think people are pretending to be nice, they are just trying harder or maybe actually just thinking about it more.  Many charitable organizations would die on the vine without the &quot;giving of the season.&quot;  Christmas is a good thing despite the obvious material and idealistic excesses.

By the way, Jerry Falwell is now claiming that last year he &quot;saved&quot; Christmas.  For a small donation you can help him do it again this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think people are pretending to be nice, they are just trying harder or maybe actually just thinking about it more.  Many charitable organizations would die on the vine without the &#8220;giving of the season.&#8221;  Christmas is a good thing despite the obvious material and idealistic excesses.</p>
<p>By the way, Jerry Falwell is now claiming that last year he &#8220;saved&#8221; Christmas.  For a small donation you can help him do it again this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Kidwell</title>
		<link>http://www.joethorn.net/2006/12/14/the-american-christmas/#comment-2846</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Kidwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joe do you think its important, though, to do Christmas differently?  Is there a point where we look so much like the world that they really can&#039;t tell the difference?

Josh
&quot;...the word of God is not bound.&quot;
--2 Timothy 2:9</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe do you think its important, though, to do Christmas differently?  Is there a point where we look so much like the world that they really can&#8217;t tell the difference?</p>
<p>Josh<br />
&#8220;&#8230;the word of God is not bound.&#8221;<br />
&#8211;2 Timothy 2:9</p>
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