Pagan Christianity Ch 1

Posted by Joe Thorn - 02/01/08

I was planning on interacting with at least the first two chapters today, but I am sick and only have the energy to write up some thoughts on chapter one.

Chapter one is a challenge to re-think our current practices in the church, an invitation to read the book. I guess we should all be thankful for this little book since without it the church remains doomed to misunderstanding who it is and what it should be doing. This is how the book presents itself. Since the death of the Apostle John no one got it right. At best, according to the authors, the Church Fathers syncretized just about everything the church should be doing with pagan practices to such a degree that the divine mandates have been lost. And no one since has done much to return the church to its Apostolic practices. The Reformers did not reform the church, the puritans did not purify worship, and your contemporary church with its building, paid staff, sermons, etc. is so far outside the will of God that the spiritual health of those attending your services is in grave danger. My response after reading the book - whatever.

I do not want to dismiss the authors’ concerns, but it’s hard for me to take them seriously when they so grossly overstate things.Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy provocative books. I want others to challenge me and force me to re-think my practices and beliefs. The problem for me is that the book reads more like an ecclesiological version of the Loose Change conspiracy theories concerning the 9/11 attack. A lot of information is collected, assumptions are made, and in the end the final interpretation of history is simply wrong. Not only does their attempt to uncover the truth fail, but more importantly I fear their legit concerns will be ignored by many while others will read the book as gospel because it presents itself as unquestionable history with Barna’s research seal of approval.

The book contains two early qualifications. The publisher is careful to note, “Tyndale does not necessarily agree with all of the authors positions.” And though the authors are aiming at bringing about change, Barna urges caution on the part of readers with “rebellious hearts” who want to use this book to ” wreak havoc” in their churches. He writes, “Our advice: Either leave your church quietly, refusing to cause division, or be at peace with it. There is a vast difference between rebellion and taking a stand for what is true.” (pg. 5) This is part of my concern with the book, it actively encourages a polite divorce from the church. It suggests that the church, in its institutional form, is so far gone than the best option for many is to leave quietly. I think this is a careless and deadly suggestion.

In the next post I will interact with their remonstrance against “church buildings.” I know, like we needed someone to come along and tell us the early church did not operate out of a building. But some of their concerns about our buildings are very legit. If you own one, it would do you well to seriously consider why and what you do with it.

14 Comments

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  1. As someone who is currently moving toward a day when he will be starting a local community of Christians I find this book and the topic personally poignant.

    Perhaps part of the reason why they suggest people ‘leave quietly’ is because of the poverty of the church when it comes to actually listening to the frustrations of its membership. The only other way for most folks in the church to voice their thoughts on change is to create a disturbance. Brian Sanders’ Book LIFE AFTER CHURCH illuminates this point quite well. The suggestion of a quiet divorce is the best way to let be a church that will not appreciate hearing about these sort of issues.

    Comment by David — January 2, 2008 #

  2. Joe, I share your frustration with the tone of the book (as I did when read the original version) and I agree that it’s going to end up provoking either outright dismissal or naive acceptance. The historical method at work here is at times atrocious, but I don’t think that the target market for the book, Barna’s Revolutionaries, are disposed to be critical.

    As for “a quiet divorce” being the best way to handle these issues, well, that just short circuits the possibility of dialogue right away doesn’t it? It’s must easier to simply assume that ‘the church’ won’t get it and bail out then to do the hard work of respecting your brothers and sisters enough to discuss serious issues with them, even if it takes time and courts contention. You might still end up leaving, but not before you give others the dignity of responding to what concerns you. Don’t we owe each other at least that much?

    Comment by J. Michael Matkin — January 2, 2008 #

  3. Thanks for doing this series. I look forward to your continued posts on it.

    Comment by Zach Nielsen — January 2, 2008 #

  4. This is great reading. You should review more books! Thanks for posting your thoughts in spite of not feeling so well.

    Comment by RobFreire — January 2, 2008 #

  5. Joe:

    It seems to me like Barna is on a crusade to eliminate the established church. Much of what he wrote in “Revolution” plays right into the general theme of this book in regards to leaving the church. In an attempt to be “relevant” and appeal to the post-Evangelical crowd, they have essentially suggested that the bride be divorced from the bridegroom. Surely, they would argue, that it’s not about Jesus, it’s about the establishment or the institution, but the fact of the matter is that Jesus himself established the Church and added certain positions within it (i.e. Pastors/Elders, deacons, etc.). How do those play out in the relevant world? As they seek to be new and cool, they will continue down a road that will eventually lead them to be obsolete and alone. Ignoring and/or attempting to refute the most widely accepted church history to make such bold claims is simply ridiculous.

    I look forward to more…

    Nick

    Comment by Nick Kennicott — January 3, 2008 #

  6. Joe, great writing and reflections. I am only about half way through a preview copy of the book but thus far I find myself agreeing with many of the problems/obstacles that are being highlighted while not appreciating the tone and barrage of overstatements.

    However, while not wishing to be a Barna apologist I have to take exception to the previous comment stating that Barna is suggesting the “bride be divorced from the bridegroom.” In Revolution Barna was not suggesting that people leave the bridegroom, he was stating the fact that droves of people were leaving the established/institutional church and moving towards alternative faith based communities for their spiritual formation and nourishment, because the mode of operation of much of the established church was inhibiting such formation.

    Comment by brad brisco — January 3, 2008 #

  7. [...] the Blogosphere Filed under: In the Blogosphere — trevinwax @ 3:30 am Joe Thorn is blogging through the new Barna & Viola book Pagan Christianity. For a good laugh, make sure you read the iMonk’s reaction to the book. [...]

    Pingback by In the Blogosphere « Kingdom People — January 4, 2008 #

  8. [...] some people are saying there is my friend Dash: Post 1, Post 2, Post 3, Post 4, Joe Thorn Intro, Part 1, Part 2, Alan Hirsh,Trevin Wax and I’m assuming iMonk.  There is lots more to be found [...]

    Pingback by theheresy.com » Blog Archive » Pagan Christianity, the church and scripture — January 6, 2008 #

  9. Joe, it might have been best if you had waited for your fever to abate before writing this series. :) This opening salvo may “poison the well” before a healthy discussion can even take place, but I’m sure you’ll get lots of kudos from certain quarters within the Reformed camp. I have not read the book yet, but you’ve certainly stirred my interest.

    I subscribe to the “historical drift” model as it relates to orthodoxy and orthopraxy, in spite of some of the brighter moments of church history. Yes, the Reformation rescued several key doctrines and practices, but it actually brought very little change to the institutional and organizational monstrosity that most of us have accepted as “the church.” I do not embrace the Reformation with rose-colored glasses, believing that it brought about the revolution that was so desperately needed in those dark ages (then and now). Maybe that’s what Barna and Viola are going for, I don’t know; however, knowing what it cost the Reformers and Puritans for tweaking the institutional church of their day, I can’t imagine what fury awaits anyone who calls for a wholesale deconstruction of church-as-we-know-it and the pursuit of New Testament simplicity.

    For those of us who are embedded in “churchianity” it’s very difficult to imagine any other way of following and serving Christ. If there’s another way (such as the “revolutionaries” described by Barna), this certainly creates a lot of unrest and dissonance for those within our established system. There are costs associated with going against the grain. John Bunyan comes to mind, choosing rather to languish for 17 years in the Bedford jail rather than acquiescing to the religious Gestapo of his day. And Luther most certainly counted the cost when facing the icy interrogation of Johann Eck at the Diet of Worms.

    Comment by Bill Lollar — January 8, 2008 #

  10. I think it’s as simple as this Bill. Read the book. I haven’t even started blogging on the more critical chapters yet (been sick, but will start up again later today). Like I’ve said, they raise some good issues and point to some legit problems, but are overstating things. The Reformation brought the critical reformation where it was most needed at the time (soteriology). The puritans brought about a revolution in the way we the church worshipped. I am not suggesting that either movements of God (yes, I do believe they were works of God) were perfect, or accomplished all the reformation that was/is needed. But because Viola’s book is more melodrama than the biblical method I do not think it will leave an impact (I am thankful for this). I would like there to be more discussion on these subjects, but I do not believe this book will prove very helpful to anyone.

    Comment by Joe Thorn — January 8, 2008 #

  11. [...] Thorn pt. 1, pt. [...]

    Pingback by Linkathon 1/8/08 | Phoenix Preacher — January 8, 2008 #

  12. [...] book is getting significant buzz in the ’sphere. See Joe Thorn’s comments here, here, and here; Trevin Wax’s here; Brant Hansen’s here, and iMonk’s [...]

    Pingback by relevintage - a blog by brad andrews — January 8, 2008 #

  13. But because Viola’s book is more melodrama than the biblical method I do not think it will leave an impact (I am thankful for this). I would like there to be more discussion on these subjects, but I do not believe this book will prove very helpful to anyone.

    Knowing something of Frank Viola and his style of writing, this was my thought, also. However, on the other hand, if the book had been more reasonable, would you have found the time to look at it and would others?

    Comment by Ali — January 8, 2008 #

  14. [...] Grown review. – iMonk’s humorous review. – Joe Thorn has four reviews so far: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4 – Jordon Cooper review. – Josh Brown podcast with Frank here. – [...]

    Pingback by Pagan Christianity Review Index | nathangann.com — January 13, 2008 #

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