Comments on: Pagan Christianity on Worship

By: Monday Links | Subverting Mediocrity

Monday Links | Subverting Mediocrity — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:34:39 +0000

[...] blogosphere. You can check out reviews all over the place. Here are a few. Here. Here. Here. That’s just a [...]

By: C. Pridham

C. Pridham — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:57:06 +0000

Joe,
Thank you for that quick response. I think it is important when talking about the church to acknowledge the fact that the church is not simply a group of people but is the living expression of Jesus Christ on this earth. I believe what Barna and Viola are attempting to do is challenge those who have the life of Jesus Christ living within them (whether in a traditional, non-traditional or house church) To be free from dead traditions (not living experiences) we thought we had to follow. If free we will be able to find new and greater means of expressing the Light and Life that dwells within. I don’t think these men are trying to sell us a new way but simply point us to THE WAY who wants to function as our head.
Chris

By: Joe Thorn

Joe Thorn — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:59:52 +0000

C.,

In principle I agree, though it would depend on exactly what we are talking about. If the church is holding onto a tradition that is neither biblically mandated, nor an effective means of carrying out the commands of Scripture, then let’s do away with it. For example, preaching must remain until the end, but the manner of preaching can change, so long as it is the engamemnent, explanation and application of Holy Scripture. The altar call is extra biblical, theologically confusing for those who use it, and tend to produce spurious fruit. It needed to go when it became in vogue to use it. So, yes, let’s drop extrabiblical activity if it is not glorifying to God and building up His people.

I think that Barna and Viola though wind up calling every traditional church (and this would include very non-traditional churches) invalid while implying that only a certain kind of house church expression is valid.

By: C. Pridham

C. Pridham — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:09:01 +0000

Joe,
I want to say that I appreciate you taking the time to comment on challenging books like Pagan Christianity. Like you I believe it is important to have conversations about the things we believe if we are to grow. In one of your comments on chapter 3 you say “The problem is not the order of worship. In my estimation the greater problems are what fills the order of worship (content).” Isn’t that the same as saying that the problem is not the wineskin but what fills the wineskin? It’s been my experience that real change is a very slow and difficult thing for the church and mankind in general to embrace. We always seem to want to fix things instead of moving on into the new. I believe that many of today’s church traditions started with life from above but when the life left, the tradition of it continued. Many Christians today pray that God will breath life back into the once living experience but now dead tradition. Why can’t we leave what is behind, appreciate the life we experienced in it, and continue the journey of the tent living pilgrim and sojourner into new life.

By: Eduardo

Eduardo — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:51:58 +0000

Bob,

I saw the most recent video posted at Solomon’s Porch and believ me, Pagitt’s church is more like: stand up and say what the message means to you kind of thing…It is scary!

Well but coming back to Viola’s book and Joe’s analysis, I havent read the book, and guess am going to have to do so just to see how “bad” things are…

Thanks again Joe!