Comments on: Driscoll on Harsh Language http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/ theology. church. culture. life. Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:10:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: chris http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4559 chris Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:29:46 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4559 “And [Nehemiah] beat some of them! Now, he’s an older guy, and he’s beating up certain members of his church. What do we do with that? I’ll tell you what I’d like to do with that. I’d like to follow in his example. There’s a few guys right now, that if I wasn’t going to end up on CNN, I would go old testament on them, even in leadership in this church.” – Mark Driscoll Nehemiah was a statesman. Mark Driscoll is a priest/pastor. The state has power over men's bodies when they transgress. The church does not. But these little subtle details are lost on men like Mark Driscoll. Yes, it may have been a fit of anger he experienced, but philosophically he is misleading and mixes up the spheres of sovereignty. If I was unclear as to my meaning, I hope this clarifies things. Besides, he needs to keep his personal frustrations out of the pulpit. “And [Nehemiah] beat some of them! Now, he’s an older guy, and he’s beating up certain members of his church. What do we do with that? I’ll tell you what I’d like to do with that. I’d like to follow in his example. There’s a few guys right now, that if I wasn’t going to end up on CNN, I would go old testament on them, even in leadership in this church.”
– Mark Driscoll

Nehemiah was a statesman. Mark Driscoll is a priest/pastor. The state has power over men’s bodies when they transgress. The church does not. But these little subtle details are lost on men like Mark Driscoll. Yes, it may have been a fit of anger he experienced, but philosophically he is misleading and mixes up the spheres of sovereignty. If I was unclear as to my meaning, I hope this clarifies things. Besides, he needs to keep his personal frustrations out of the pulpit.

]]> By: Joe Thorn http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4558 Joe Thorn Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:57:46 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4558 actually chris, I can think of "great preachers" who were accused of being proud, arrogant, or of preaching in inappropriate ways. Spurgeon is an easy example to site. Check out any bio on the man. In the case of Mark and this video, I agree with his principles regarding language. As for his words regarding the "cowardice" of others I can only assume he knows who he is referring to. That may or may not be true and I wouldn't be able to pass judgment. Though certainly it is true of many. Either way, I think the conference wil be beneficial and I am eager to hear the speakers (come on free MP3s!). actually chris, I can think of “great preachers” who were accused of being proud, arrogant, or of preaching in inappropriate ways. Spurgeon is an easy example to site. Check out any bio on the man. In the case of Mark and this video, I agree with his principles regarding language. As for his words regarding the “cowardice” of others I can only assume he knows who he is referring to. That may or may not be true and I wouldn’t be able to pass judgment. Though certainly it is true of many. Either way, I think the conference wil be beneficial and I am eager to hear the speakers (come on free MP3s!).

]]> By: chris http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4557 chris Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:05:58 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4557 PS- God can speak in that way because He alone has absolute Being. We are all subject to His dominion, but not to a dominion of man. This guy is mislead and misleading. PS- God can speak in that way because He alone has absolute Being. We are all subject to His dominion, but not to a dominion of man. This guy is mislead and misleading.

]]> By: chris http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4556 chris Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:04:28 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4556 Just make a list of great preachers throughout the centuries. Did any one of them have to resort to the kind of thing that this guy is? No. Were they namby-pamby? No. In my mind what is happening is a display of raw authority, not a language issue. It is an authoritarian approach that exceeds the limits of what is given to a minister, or any man over another man. We are all made in the image of God, and are not to have dominion over one another. Just make a list of great preachers throughout the centuries. Did any one of them have to resort to the kind of thing that this guy is? No. Were they namby-pamby? No.

In my mind what is happening is a display of raw authority, not a language issue. It is an authoritarian approach that exceeds the limits of what is given to a minister, or any man over another man. We are all made in the image of God, and are not to have dominion over one another.

]]> By: Passion For Preaching » Blog Archive » Mark Driscoll on Strong Language http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4555 Passion For Preaching » Blog Archive » Mark Driscoll on Strong Language Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:40:23 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4555 [...] picked this up from Joe Thorn, and I think it is worth your time as a preacher to hear what Mark Driscoll has to say on this [...] [...] picked this up from Joe Thorn, and I think it is worth your time as a preacher to hear what Mark Driscoll has to say on this [...]

]]> By: Craig http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4554 Craig Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:45:31 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4554 Joe, Thanks for making this known. It is definitely worthwhile for all pastors to think through this sticky discussion. Joe, Thanks for making this known. It is definitely worthwhile for all pastors to think through this sticky discussion.

]]> By: Pete Williamson http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4553 Pete Williamson Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:05:58 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4553 wish I could, but T4G was my big splurge...one of these years maybe. wish I could, but T4G was my big splurge…one of these years maybe.

]]> By: Joe Thorn http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4552 Joe Thorn Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:50:47 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4552 I like what Mark says here, though much more needs to be said. Things need to be further clarified, and that's the point of the conference. I wish I could go. Are you going Pete? I like what Mark says here, though much more needs to be said. Things need to be further clarified, and that’s the point of the conference. I wish I could go. Are you going Pete?

]]> By: Keith Ingram http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4551 Keith Ingram Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:37:05 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4551 Pete, I kind of cringed when he said “If that’s how God speaks, then that’s how we should speak.” But then I wondered how much of my cringing comes from living in a namby pamby feminized church culture. One of the things I love about reading the gospels is how much Jesus was in the face of the pharisees. He had zero tolerance or patience for them. He called them names (see all of Matthew 23) and he ridiculed their ignorance (Matthew 16:2-4). I like the way Mark clarified his remarks to say that God’s use of that kind of rough language was mostly reserved for the self righteous who needed their balloons punctured. I think that we have to be careful, and I think Mark would agree as well. (I am really looking forward to the full conference to hear the expanded version of this talk. This topic is near and dear to my heart). But I also think that in some situations we need to be bolder, and yes, harsher than we usually are. Keith (this is a slightly modified version of my response comment to Michael on my blog entry with this same video) Pete,

I kind of cringed when he said “If that’s how God speaks, then that’s how we should speak.” But then I wondered how much of my cringing comes from living in a namby pamby feminized church culture.

One of the things I love about reading the gospels is how much Jesus was in the face of the pharisees. He had zero tolerance or patience for them. He called them names (see all of Matthew 23) and he ridiculed their ignorance (Matthew 16:2-4). I like the way Mark clarified his remarks to say that God’s use of that kind of rough language was mostly reserved for the self righteous who needed their balloons punctured.

I think that we have to be careful, and I think Mark would agree as well. (I am really looking forward to the full conference to hear the expanded version of this talk. This topic is near and dear to my heart). But I also think that in some situations we need to be bolder, and yes, harsher than we usually are.

Keith

(this is a slightly modified version of my response comment to Michael on my blog entry with this same video)

]]> By: Pete Williamson http://www.joethorn.net/2008/08/15/driscoll-on-harsh-language/#comment-4550 Pete Williamson Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:48:48 +0000 http://www.joethorn.net/?p=958#comment-4550 any thoughts on what he had to say? any thoughts on what he had to say?

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