Ok, these questions are not to be answered by those who preach regularly. I only want to hear from people who listen to preaching week in and week out. Got it? Here we go:
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
2. When is a sermon too long?
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3′s, CDs? If so, who?
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
I am the Lead Pastor of Redeemer Fellowship; husband to Jen; Dad to Katherine, Elias, Madeline, and Kilian. If you're in town you can probably find me in the local coffee house or running through the neighborhoods.
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Joe, here’s my sermon evaluation form. I readily admit this is Lutheran “Old School”…
[edited by Joe Thorn] – Not trying to be hard here Jonathan. But I asked in that preachers not engage this one. If you like, please feel free to put your remarks in the previous post, Questions for Preachers.
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
The Gospel. At my Baptist church we tend to have good topical sermons, and some good exposition, but we have trouble linking everything back to the Gospel… which we need to do.
2. When is a sermon too long?
Wow, that’s a good question. I don’t think there’s some fixed time limit – a lot depends on the quality of your presentation and the capability of your congregation to listen. I can usually tell about the time the congregation is tuning out… and I know that means the sermon has gone 5 minutes too long.
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
I listen to some Driscoll, some Steve McCoy (he’s a celebrity, right?), but that’s about it.
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
Nope. Two different churches, styles, settings. Honestly.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
On occasion…. not as often as I should.
I don’t preach regularly so I can answer.
1. I don’t want a bunch of stories and illustrations wrapped around a theological skeleton. I prefer preaching that follows Paul’s pattern of theology and then application. All theology isn’t helpful and all application is moralism.
2. For me that isn’t measured in minutes. When you’ve covered the subject and encouraged the hearers to trust Christ and obey, you’re done.
Side note: A good sermon can be made too long when the music minister feels he needs to sum it up and re-preach it.
3. Yes. I listen to Piper and Driscoll and Keller when I can get him. I to them on my iPod.
4. No, strangely I do not. Dan is a very good preacher and pretty consistent. The only time I find myself comparing preachers to these guys is when it is clear that preaching is trying to be that preacher.
5. Not as well or consistently as I should. My wife is very good at remembering a sermon and applying it, me not so much. But I am trying. BTW, this is the one that should have had the “Be honest” disclaimer on it!
1. The Cost of Discipleship – more commitment in a world that doesn’t commit to anything.
2. When I lose interest. Some sermons should naturally be 25 minutes while others could be 90 minutes.
3. I have been listening to Francis Chan and the other pastors at Cornerstone Simi as well as Driscoll, Piper, Mark Moore (my former pastor), and a few others.
4. Not really. He’s so different from those guys it is hard to compare them – their contexts are much different as well.
5.I write sermon notes in a Moleskine and refer to them later.
I am a Pastor, but I am not the primary Teaching Pastor. I hope that fits the rules.
The last three questions are valid and should be asked more of people. The first two make me sick to my stomach that we think its appropriate to ask these questions, unless we are talking about sermons that are not birthed out of the overflow of an intimate relationship with God.
It’s too long when you are trying to force something on the hearer that is your own word. What I would like to hear more from the pulpit is what God wants to speak through you.
Tim, you are so right.
as a “worship guy” myself Chris, I agree completely. It’s not his/her message to bring
I am also a worship guy… and was taught early to just shut up and sing the closing song.
A good lesson.
1) It a hard one. Typically I would like to hear more about Jesus, from basic Christology to how Jesus changes my view of the world and my everyday life. It’s one of those strange things that I don’t think we can ever get enough of. How Jesus changes the way I relate to my family, enemies and people I don’t know. How he changes the way I do my normal 24/7 job. How he teaches me to love the unlovable. How he teaches me to die to myself. I don’t mean that in the “How can Jesus be practical in my everyday life of bust” type of way that I hear so often. Obviously, having benefited a lot from N.T. Wrights Christian Origins and the Quesion of God series, I would love to hear some of that.
It’s a hard one because I understand that one needs to cater for people who know absolutely nothing about this thing we call Christianity as well as try and cater for those who have been been either doing this for a while or who know a bit more.
2) A sermon is generally too long when I loose interest in that which is being said. Sorry if this doesn’t really give a specific answer, but I find that if I’m interested in what is being said, then whether it’s 20 minutes or an hour doesn’t really matter much.
3) I think Piper is the only “Celebrity” preacher I have listen to.
4) Sure I do. I don’t think you can not. It’s one of those things that if you become accustomed to hearing a certain standard somewhere that you start demanding it other places.
5) Depends on the sermon
But no, I do generally “try” to apply the sermon to my everyday life. Sometimes it’s easier said than done. Other times, especially when a sermon addresses something contrary to my own way of thinking, I will spend more time trying to see whether the topic passes the “bullet-proof” theory than actually just trying to apply it to my life.
b/
I think the first question is legit: I want to know what people would like to hear more of from their pastor. This isn’t asked in order to determine what we should preach, but to get at what hearers are thinking. Sometimes people want to hear more bible/theology, law and gospel than the pastor is giving (good desire). Others may want more entertainment from their pastor (bad desire).
I think the second question is also legit. I am not asking for a time frame (though I expect many to answer with that). The question is – when is it too long. This will vary from place to place, culture to culture.
I hear you. I’m still wrestling with the questions.
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
Reason. Comprehensive reasoning using scripture. Emotion exists in half-lives. Reason gains endurance as it ages.
2. When is a sermon too long?
Anytime after the points have been reiterated.
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
I listen to only one podcast. Ravi Zacharias.
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
No. He is in a different place than celebrity preachers.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
In general they are neither captivating nor memorable.
1. Bang-my-palm-on-my-forehead ideas from the Bible that feel fresh but obvious.
2. As soon as the preacher starts repeating himself because he has the feeling that the audience doesn’t get it yet. We get it. We’re just bored out of our minds.
3. No.
4. Yes.
5. No. A sermon has to be pretty amazing to stick with me in its specifics much past 2 pm on Sunday. Its effect can last longer, but not because I’m thinking about the 3 points of the message.
1. In general, more about the Gospel. Bridges makes an excellent point when he says we should preach the Gospel to ourselves every day (and by extension, from our pulpits as well). I will say that in general, my Pastor does an excellent job of doing this, but I can never get enough of the Gospel.
2. When it stops being engaging. I originally put “interesting” and realized that wasn’t the right term. When I say “engaging”, I mean, “Am I being encouraged, exhorted, challenged or something to become a better follower of Christ.”
The practical side of me says, however, it is the moment I look at my watch because I feel like it’s time to go to lunch, it’s been too long. =) In general, 45 to 60 is probably the upper limit to most people’s attention span. There’s always next week to continue (and if there’s not, well, then we have bigger issues.)
3. Yes, I listen to Piper, Driscoll, Begg, Sproul most every week (usually Begg & Sproul it’s just the weekend broadcast of their radio ministry).
4. Not really, or at least no more than I compare Piper to Driscol to Sproul. All completely different. It’s content more than delivery for me.
5. Do I try to apply it? Yes. Do I fail more often than not? Yes. And it’s troubling because as part of the leadership, I know I need to be leading the way, setting the example.
1. I want to hear about the desperate peril my sin puts me in and the glory of Christ in the gospel to rescue me. I don’t want tips/ideas to improve my life unless they fit that above format. Mostly because of the effect it has on the rest of the week (which is to answer question 5 ahead of time). Unless the sermon is drenched in talk of my insufficiency and Christ’s power, then the sermon gets forgotten and nothing changes. I know I’m a bit weird in this, but I really do want more talk about my sin. It’s the only thing that keeps me trusting in God all week.
2. A sermon is too long when the side points begin to detract from the main point. If you have more to say about the topic that will not take away from the heart of what you are trying to say, I say keep preaching brother! (although, unfortunately after an hour and a half or more, my mental energy may be spent. Thought I don’t know that I’ve ever reached that point outside of a conference)
3. I do. I listen to Discoll and Piper
4. Honestly, I usually don’t. The temptation is there though. There was a time when I did and I realized how wicked it was. Now I try and judge my heart by the sermon – which means that if I find myself being critical of a sermon’s style when the content is wholly Biblical that I need to repent in my seat so that I can listen and worship through the rest of the sermon.
I think the times that I get most caught up on style are when I can’t focus on the main point of the sermon because I’m not really sure what it is.
5. See question 1.
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
Good exposition that leads to gospel-centered application. I want my life changed every time I listen to the Word of God preached – my sin exposed and the glory of God lifted up.
2. When is a sermon too long?
40 minutes is the max!
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
Keller, Piper, Driscoll, Carson…one off conferences here and there, primarily Acts 29 guys.
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
Sometimes, but not really. My pastor is only a small part of my sermon intake. It’s primarily from the list above.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
Sometimes, but more from the MP3 guys.
1. More meat and less milk. Even basic truths can be made more meaty by delving into history, context, original language, or paralleling OT and NT.
2. I agree with a lot of the above posts. I know you’re not looking for a number of minutes, but may I add this? A service that lasts past noon is too long. This may not be because of a long sermon but because of a long service. People and kids get hungry at noon and those of us with ADD start tuning out:).
3. I used to until the local Christian radio station stated taking all the good preachers off. I don’t own CDs or an MP3.
4. Not really. I see celebrity preachers in a whole other realm. I do compare when visiting other churches though.
5. Like someone else said, it has to be a pretty good sermon in order for me to even remember it by bedtime on Sunday. More meat = more memory.
1. I always want to hear the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus. If all of Scripture is ultimately about Jesus, then I want to hear sermons that help me understand how the text, rightly understood and applied, points me there.
2. A sermon is too long when I tune out. It’s more about coherency and delivery than length.
3. At various seasons in my life I have listened to a lot of Piper and Driscoll and occasionally D.A. Carson and Tim Keller.
4. No, I don’t think so. I do tend to run sermons through my theological grid, which has been significantly informed by teaching from these guys. I’m usually looking for plain exposition of the text and the gospel more than I’m looking at style or organization.
5. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The best is when applications come up in ordinary conversation or result in ongoing evaluation of my life, attitude, and behavior. It’s not often that I take notes during the sermon and then review them during the week.
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
-Expository preaching; as Christians what we really need is help reading our Bible.
2. When is a sermon too long?
When I start nodding off. If it’s good and the Spirit is at work, take as long as you need brother.
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
Yep – although less regular now. Piper, Driscoll, Keller, D. Patrick, R. McKinley, Rob Bell (not for theology but for communication)
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
I have in the past and when I do, I typically end up repenting.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
Sometimes – like someone said above, I’m more likely to reflect and apply the central emphasis rather than some specific points.
1. Quite honestly, I believe that our pastor is a man after God’s heart who preaches the message he believes God has given him for our church, so who am I to want to hear anything different?
2. Our pastor normally preaches somewhere between 30-40 minutes and I have rarely felt that it was too long. The times that I might have thought the preaching was too long were most likely more about my own discomfort than the preaching.
3. Yes. John Piper, Francis Chan, Louie Giglio (I have a teenager who listens to Chan and Giglio, so I listen, too), Ravi Zacharias…
4. No. Honest.
5. I do try. I take notes, we discuss them as a family from time to time throughout the week, and I reflect on them in my personal study times.
Thanks for giving us an opportunity to share these thoughts, Joe.
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
More focus on challenging/changing beliefs and attitudes rather than behaviours.
2. When is a sermon too long?
Depends. Last week 45 minutes was too long, sometimes 45 minutes is too short. Usually sermons that are repetative are too long.
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
Piper, Bell, Chandler (only one i catch every week), Driscoll
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
Not so much on style, but content for sure.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
Rarely
1. Answering hard-hitting questions that skeptics throw at Christians–honestly, not dodging the sticky points.
2. When I notice how long it’s been. Not too long if I don’t check my watch, and not too short if I don’t marvel that it’s already over.
3. Yes, Piper.
4. No, honest.
5. Yes.
1. Better explanation of the Scripture used. Many times because a preacher has labored over the text they emphasize their point more than the actual understanding of the text. Many preachers claim to be expository when they really aren’t.
2. Its too long when Jesus gets bored.
3. I am a covenant member at the Village Church so I hear Matt Chandler every week. Some would consider him a celebrity I guess but I would not. I have listened to Driscoll, Piper, Dever in the past.
4. Yes. At previous churches I compared the sermons to others. I think it was dangerous for me to listen to other pastors to get my fill because it disconnected me from my local church.
5. I try. We cover the sermon in our home group every two weeks. I talk about it with those that I walk with. But, it is very difficult.
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
Whatever the sermon, I want to hear the gospel implications. I like what Keller said in one his Covenant lectures: You should always declare the gospel in your sermon. Believers need to hear it to be reminded of it’s power and they need to be instructed how to share it. Unbelievers need to hear the pure gospel so as not to get tangled up in works.
2. When is a sermon too long?
I think if the table has been set with true worship, people don’t really care. Ironically, our worship this week seemed to strike a chord with our people, and our lead pastor had one of his shortest sermons ever (25 mins). In his defense, his sermon length was appropriate to the sermon subject.
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
Piper, MacArthur, Driscoll, Swindoll, Ingram
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
Yes and No. I don’t compare style, because I’m generally style agnostic, but I do compare how much of the sermon is text-driven compare to my list. My pastor stacks up pretty well.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
Only if I treat the time I hear the sermon as a holy moment requiring some heart response. The only lasting impact I have is with my own internal monologue generated from the external sermon. And yes, I got that from Chapell’s preaching textbook.
I preach occasionally – does that disqualify me?
1. Preaching that invites the hearer to enter the world of the text and leave with a better understanding of the grace of God and a clearer view of what the author is saying.
2. When the preacher is adding nothing fresh. For some this is about 3.5 minutes. For others there seems to be no limit.
3. Yes, but sporadically. Mainly Piper, Keller, Begg, Driscoll, Zacharias, Chandler and Carson.
4. Yes.
5. Depends on the sermon. Some still haunt my thoughts years later, but many don’t even make it home.
I found your post via my friend, Cindy, at http://cindyswanslife.blogspot.com/. She featured this post in her link list. I recognized your name immediately! I believe you and my husband knew each other at Moody! Very small world! Hope you are all doing well.
My answers:
1. I would like to hear more about the Holy Spirit’s work in a believer’s life.
2. A sermon is too long only when I begin to tune out. I’ve sat through three hours of riveting preaching and never noticed the passing time, but there are times a half hour of flat preaching feels endless.
3. I don’t listen to any celebrity preachers. I also believe there shouldn’t be any celebrity preachers. But that’s just me.
4. I don’t have a basis to judge, but I really enjoy my Pastor’s preaching – I should say I’m convicted by it, and I’m growing…not so much “I enjoy it,” since he certainly doesn’t pander to his audience.
5. I certainly try to apply it!
Thanks for the great feedback everyone. Ann-Marie! Wow. Great to hear from you. Tell Brett I said “hello.”
1) Jesus from the Gospels. the gospel stories
2)it’s all relative to the quality of the speaker. imho,most preachers should stay within 20-30 minutes.
3)N.T.Wright, but he doesn’t preach regularly, so I don’t listen regularly. I’ve recently starting listen to John Ortberg.
4) No. he is one of the few I can listen to.
5) probably not as much as I should. but it probably shapes me as a person, more than I recognize.
I am a fairly new preacher and I appreciate this discussion that I just stumbled upon. Thanks for sharing everyone.
Currently an occasional preacher (but not at my church, so trying to follow Abraham’s advice…
1. What would you like to hear more of from the pulpit?
The Gospel. And not just an “add-on” to the end of a few messages here and there, or an invitation to get saved. Explicit re-emphasis of the central message of Jesus, justification by faith, and an entrance to know, love and enjoy God above all else. (It is meant for Christians too!) Help us to see the worth and work of Jesus.
Tend to think there are people in our church who have been coming for months or years, yet remain unregenerate and are going through the motions, although excited. They love our church; not sure if they love God. (Ouch.)
Give us good deep theology, for we, as sheep, will develop an appetite for what we are fed. Please don’t turn the good news into good advice.
2. When is a sermon too long?
Depends on the group. Our congregation probably tops out at 40 minutes. Agree with Tim above who said a sermon is too long with the music/worship leader re-preaches it (or something else!) right afterward. That doesn’t happen in our church, but have seen it (at retreats, esp.) and felt the air leave the room.
3. Do you listen to “celebrity” preachers (Driscoll, Piper, etc.) via MP3’s, CDs? If so, who?
Don’t think of them as celebrities, but probably once every few weeks I listen to John Piper, Darrin Patrick, Matt Chandler, and Mark Driscoll. There are others, but I think this question is related to those who are well known.
Damian Kyle is relatively unknown, but anyone would do well to listen to him bring the word.
4. Do you critique your pastor’s preaching by comparing him to the celebrity preachers? Be honest.
Probably. (Okay, definitely.) But I think not related to style. Really any comparison is with substance: the content of a message. Are we being taken deeper into the worth and work of Jesus and the tiny boxes of our lives being exploded? Piper says the Bible is meant not simply to be the foundation of all preaching, but the content of the message. I wrestle with not shouting that out.
5. In general, are you applying the sermon you hear on Sunday to your life throughout the week?
Perhaps the question could be, Am I applying my life to the sermon, to God’s Word? Yes, I think, in a number of directions. My wife and I talk about it, we both take notes, and we talk about it. Perhaps the most telling question is, Whose sermon am I more apt to apply? Probably think about the others I listed above more than a message from our church where I intern. Sort go elsewhere (specifically reading) to eat and chew on that.
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